topic Re: Canon Vixia HF-R800 "Cannot Record" in Camcorders

Canon Vixia HF-R800 "Cannot Record"

ZenGeekDad — Sun, 10 Jun 2018 22:45:19 GMT

My Canon Vixia HF-R800 is unable to record to a new top-brand micro-SD card (64 GB).

(This is just to provide a record of it. I doubt anyone has a fix. But, feel free to prove me wrong!)

Details:

Camcorder = Canon Vixia HF-R800. Relatively new (<1 yr old) / very light use / never abused (I'm a middle-aged video hobbiest and am very fussy with my gear; this is a spare camera for me; used for maybe 6 shoots).

Camcorder has recorded trouble-free to prior SD cards -- e.g., to a PNY 32 GB Class 10 / UHS-1 / V90 / "95MB/s R/W".

The currently-failing SD card is a Sandisk Ultra, 64 GB micro SD XC-I (class 10 / UHS 1). This SD card works flawlessly in ever other camera I use it in (Canon XC15, Nikon D7200, Panasonix TM700, GoPro Hero5), and works fine with my PC.

I initialized this failing SD card in the Canon HF-R800. (Home icon on touch screen > Other Settings [screwdriver & hammer] > wrench tab at far right > Initialize (4th up from bottom) > Initialize (button at bottom of screen) > Complete Initialization (bottom button of scrren again). This did not help.

I also tried wiping the card in my PC, by doing a standard format (as opposed to a Quick Format), then trying as is, and when that failed to allow the Canon Vixia to record to it, then repeating the Complete Initialization in the Canon HF-R800. Again, no luck.

I've repeated the in-Canon HF-R800 Complete Initialization a couple-few times, just to give it every chance to work. No luck.

I've confirmed the Canon HF-R800 currently records just fine to another 64 GB micro SD card (in this case, a Samsung Closs 10 / UHS-1 claiming 48 MB/s R/W).

Note: Canon's 1st-level monitors / staff here might try to claim this problem is due to using a poor SD card. But that doesn't wash. Sandisk is about as reliable a brand as they come. And that Sandisk SD card is working just fine in every other camera and device I own.

I'm not trying to gain anything here. Just sharing my experience. That way, if a lot of this sort of experience gets posted, we can start to sort out the patterns, and make more informed buying decisions.

Re: Canon Vixia HF-R800 "Cannot Record"

BurnUnit — Mon, 11 Jun 2018 20:54:06 GMT

I think you'll find in the user's manual that Canon recommends using only full-size SD cards. At least there are no recommendations for micro SD cards and their required adapters. Micro SD cards and/or their adapters have been known to cause problems or subpar performance in DSLR cameras and I would guess the same issues could occur with camcorders as well. You're just adding another couple sets of electrical contacts and another area for potential connection problems.

I'm sure they've been used with no problem in certain cameras under certain conditions, but it's not really considered to be a best practice.

Re: Canon Vixia HF-R800 "Cannot Record"

Richard — Mon, 11 Jun 2018 21:21:47 GMT

Hi ZenGeekDad,

Thanks for posting and for the detail you've provided.

While we don't recommend specific brands or models of cards, we do recommend that you use a memory card produced by a major manufacturer that closely adhere to the current industry standards. You may see the standards at sdcard.org.

We recommend against the use of cards that require an adapter to fit in the camcorder (i.e. micro-SD or Mini-SD). The increase in the number of connections between the camcorder and memory card (from the memory card to the adapter, then from the adapter to the camcorder) makes a malfunction more likely.

Important: Your camcorder does not support memory cards using the UHS-I, UHS-II or UHS-III standards.

Re: Canon Vixia HF-R800 "Cannot Record"

ZenGeekDad — Wed, 13 Jun 2018 04:00:54 GMT

UPDATE.

Turns out the SD card adpaters are definitely part of it, but it's complicated ...

I rounded up seven different micro SD card adpaters, and tested different combinations (card + adapter) in different devices.

The HF-R800 and Sandisk are the sole fussy combination. They only work together when I use a Samsung adapter.

Every other combination works: (1) the Samsung card* works in the HF-R800 no matter the adpater, and (2) the Sandisk card* works in my other four cameras and my PC, regardless of the adapter.

* both Samsung and Sandisk micro SD cards are 64 GB class 10 UHS-1.

So it's not completely an adapter thing. And evidence says it's not a UHS-1 thing (see my related reply below this one on UHS-1).

Maybe the HF-R800 SD port flexes the cards a teeny bit, breaking electrical continuity at the contact points in most of my adapters, but which the Samsung adapter fends off better somehow (maybe it's stiffer or perhaps a crucial mil or two thinner)? Just a guess. No circuits in these adapters that I know of. Just a conduction path.

Re: Canon Vixia HF-R800 "Cannot Record"

ZenGeekDad — Wed, 13 Jun 2018 03:58:22 GMT

@Richard wrote:
... Important: Your camcorder does not support memory cards using the UHS-I, UHS-II or UHS-III standards.

Can you please double check your product info on that? Reasons I am confused by your statement:

UHS-1 came out in 2010. Canon Vixia HF-R800 came out in 2017. Camcorders singularly drove the development and commercialization of UHS SD cards. So it's hard to believe Canon wasn't caught up with UHS-1 seven years later.
The HF-R800 manual says nothing about UHS-1 cards being incompatible. I've searched it. If I missed it, please post the manual's page number.
The HF-R800 manual says to use class 6 or class 10 cards. For some time now, it has been very hard to find class 10 cards that are not also UHS-1. Recommending class 10 cards, but being incompatible with UHS-1 seems like exceedingly unfortunate product design.
Over the past year, my HF-R800 has recorded many hours on two different UHS-1 SD cards. In fact, it is happily test-recording me typing this entry right now, to a UHS-1 card.

Note: By UHS-1, I mean the card has both the number "1" inside a "U" and has the roman I after the SDXC logo:

Re: Canon Vixia HF-R800 "Cannot Record"

ZenGeekDad — Wed, 13 Jun 2018 04:31:37 GMT

@BurnUnit wrote:
I think you'll find in the user's manual that Canon recommends using only full-size SD cards. At least there are no recommendations for micro SD cards and their required adapters. Micro SD cards and/or their adapters have been known to cause problems or subpar performance in DSLR cameras and I would guess the same issues could occur with camcorders as well. You're just adding another couple sets of electrical contacts and another area for potential connection problems.

I'm sure they've been used with no problem in certain cameras under certain conditions, but it's not really considered to be a best practice.

Thanks for your comments. FWIW, I scoured the manual but found no warning against micro SD cards.

I understand the speculation that adapters might introduce interference. Audio techs cite jack adpaters all the time as boosting signal-to-noise ratio. So something like that might apply here too. Though it does feel a bit like the scape goat du jour, or perhaps the dragons we draw at the edge of the map where our knowledge ends. But in this case, I have personally-generated data showing that the adpaters were in fact at least contributing to the problem. So, thanks for the nudge! Without your reply, I would not have tested all the combinations.

Re: Canon Vixia HF-R800 "Cannot Record"

BurnUnit — Thu, 14 Jun 2018 18:58:17 GMT

I've always looked at the Micro SD cards as being designed for use in smaller devices like cell phones, tablets and MP3 players. And the only reason that the adapters existed was to make it easy to transfer files between the card and a desktop computer. Never really gave any thought to using a micro SD card any differently. If the camera has a slot for a full size SD card then that's what I intend to stick in there.

I would agree that Canon might have done a better job in their manuals however by stating outright that they DO NOT RECOMMEND the usage of Micro SD cards and adapters.

Re: Canon Vixia HF-R800 "Cannot Record"

ZenGeekDad — Sun, 17 Jun 2018 02:01:59 GMT

@BurnUnit wrote:
I've always looked at the Micro SD cards as being designed for use in smaller devices like cell phones, tablets and MP3 players. And the only reason that the adapters existed was to make it easy to transfer files between the card and a desktop computer. Never really gave any thought to using a micro SD card any differently. If the camera has a slot for a full size SD card then that's what I intend to stick in there.

I would agree that Canon might have done a better job in their manuals however by stating outright that they DO NOT RECOMMEND the usage of Micro SD cards and adapters.

Thanks for sharing your certainty that Canon DOES NOT RECOMMEND micro-SD cards in adapters in the HF-R800. Since that information isn't in their 288 page manual, ... where did you come by it?

Re: Canon Vixia HF-R800 "Cannot Record"

ZenGeekDad — Sun, 17 Jun 2018 02:06:24 GMT

Misc Update:

Today I shot a play, using the Canon Vixia HF-R800 as one camera (of several), recording ~90 minutes to a Samsung 64 EVO micro-SD card in an adapter. It worked. No failure to record. No clipped files. I'm not saying this proves it will always work; I'm just sharing the data point.

Re: Canon Vixia HF-R800 "Cannot Record"

BurnUnit — Sun, 17 Jun 2018 23:41:48 GMT

wrote:
Thanks for sharing your certainty that Canon DOES NOT RECOMMEND micro-SD cards in adapters in the HF-R800. Since that information isn't in their 288 page manual, ... where did you come by it?

I didn't. I just stated that they might have done a better job of not recommending their use in the user's manuals.

Re: Canon Vixia HF-R800 "Cannot Record"

ZenGeekDad — Mon, 18 Jun 2018 02:17:49 GMT

Wait, you said with great emphasis that Canon DOES NOT RECOMMEND using micro-SD cards. Right? So I'm just asking how you learned that. Not trying to be a pain here. Just genuinely trying to learn.

Re: Canon Vixia HF-R800 "Cannot Record"

BurnUnit — Mon, 18 Jun 2018 14:42:15 GMT

I based my observations largely on a response to this very forum post, from Richard, who's listed here as a "Canon Product Expert". If I'm not mistaken, I believe he contributes here on a voluntary basis, so I figure he has no ulterior motive.

As posted by Richard:

"We recommend against the use of cards that require an adapter to fit in the camcorder (i.e. micro-SD or Mini-SD). The increase in the number of connections between the camcorder and memory card (from the memory card to the adapter, then from the adapter to the camcorder) makes a malfunction more likely."

Also, by doing a site search using the search terms "micro", "sd" and "adapter" you will find seven pages of links returned. The majority of the threads concern problems encountered when using micro sd cards and adapters in Canon DSLRs. I took the liberty of extrapolating that information to also apply to Canon video cameras. And I did so feeling that I wasn't taking too big of a technological leap.

http://community.usa.canon.com/t5/forums/searchpage/tab/message?advanced=false&allow_punctuation=false&filter=location&location=category%3Acamera&q=MICRO+SD+ADAPTER

Maybe Canon doesn't state their "non-recommendation" more clearly because they also realize that using a micro sd card and adapter can work OK in certain circumstances. But they may also realize, as you've found out, that that they don't always work as reliably as their recommended full-size sd cards.

Re: Canon Vixia HF-R800 "Cannot Record"

ZenGeekDad — Mon, 18 Jun 2018 23:26:52 GMT

Nicely answered. Thanks.

Re: Canon Vixia HF-R800 "Cannot Record"

gstrumberger — Fri, 18 Jan 2019 20:46:07 GMT

I used the same micro-SD with adapter to film a pretty important music event recently. Everything recorded fine--but now I can't retrieve the video/audio files, in their entirety, from the camera! It plays fine while in the camera but when I remove (for instance) the mico-SD and adapter from the camera and use a card reader, all I have is video. No audio. When I try to offload the files, all I get are error messages.

Am I completely out of any kind of luck here? No way to, say, transfer from the card into the internal memory? I'm fairly desperate as we needed the footage to apply to get into a major music festival this summer--and application deadline is looming.

I agree, too, that it would have been prudent of Canon to state that they did NOT recommend using a micro-SD card in this camera because results cannot be guaranteed. I thought I'd be fine using the adapter--as others apparently thought as well.

Thanks - G

Re: Canon Vixia HF-R800 "Cannot Record"

BurnUnit — Fri, 18 Jan 2019 21:35:39 GMT

Have you tried copying your files with the card and adapter in the camera using the USB cable instead of a card reader? What software are you using to open the videos? Do you have sound when opening other video files shot the same camera on a full size SD card?

Re: Canon Vixia HF-R800 "Cannot Record"

gstrumberger — Sat, 19 Jan 2019 00:53:20 GMT

I first pulled the card out of the camera and used the card reader to work with the files. All I got was video-no audio. Windows Media Player opened them OK and played the video but, no audio. Also was able to open the file this way using Power Director. Again, no audio.

Then I wondered whether I'd have audio if I put the card back into the camcorder. At that point, video and audio played on the camera's screen but I wasn't able to open the file with any other software via the camera with a USB cable connected to the computer. No video, no audio--nada. Just got repeated error messages "unable to retrieve file".

This was the first time I used this camcorder so not sure if a full size SD card will net me different results. Of course, I intend to test it before shooting anything else.

Re: Canon Vixia HF-R800 "Cannot Record"

ZenGeekDad — Sat, 19 Jan 2019 19:43:37 GMT

gstrumberger:

I've never had the problem you describe, on my Canon Vixia HF-R800.*

My advice to you:

1 - Your best option is to try to copy the file(s) from the Vixia to your PC over a USB cord from Vixia to PC.

2 - If that fails, you might try playing it from your camera to your PC (over an HDMI cable; you need a mini-HDMI to standard HDMI cable) and recording the input at your PC, ... assuming you have means to do that. If you edit video, your editor can probably do live capture (e.g. Premiere Pro can). If not, then google "capture live video free software" and see what grabs you. I saw Wondershare in one "top ten" list. I have Wondershare for downloading web video, and I like it for that, but I have never tried it for recording a live HDMI-inputted signal.

________________________

* I've used mostly micro-SD cards in adapters in it, but at times opted for standard sized SD cards too. To date, the only difference I've seen between micro-SD and SD is the above-hypothesized differnce in reliability of data transfer (where I got the one FAIL, in recording to a micro-SD via adapter, which started this thread).

Re: Canon Vixia HF-R800 "Cannot Record"

gstrumberger — Sun, 20 Jan 2019 11:13:24 GMT

Appreciate all the advice. This entire problem has frustrated me to the Nth degree.

I did attempt to copy the files. I found the camcorder as a "device" on my computer. When I open it up, it shows no files to copy! Yes, I double-checked my settings in the camera, and on the recording itself, to make absolutely certain the file was on the SD card. It is.

I also thought about playing it on my computer through the camera, via HDMI cable, and capturing the footage through PowerDirector that way. They do have that option. However, it won't play on my computer while the SD card is in the camera! The footage only plays on the camera's screen!

The User Manual has a section about transferring files from the internal memory to a removable SD card--but nothing about the reverse. So, I don't even know whether that's possible.

As I mentioned earlier, if I remove the SD card and play the footage on my computer through a card reader, all I get is video--no audio.

I'm not an "expert" at this sort of thing, but not exactly novice either. I mean, I've worked with video footage before so this entire problem baffles me.

Re: Canon Vixia HF-R800 "Cannot Record"

BurnUnit — Tue, 22 Jan 2019 14:10:17 GMT

If it were me the next thing I'd try is to borrow or buy another micro SD card adapter. Can you download both video and audio from the same camera that's been recorded on a full size SD card or the camera's internal memory?

Re: Canon Vixia HF-R800 "Cannot Record"

gstrumberger — Sun, 20 Jan 2019 18:18:34 GMT

Haven't tried that yet...though I have wondered whether I'd have trouble using other Media. If yes, then something's wrong with the camera.

Am getting a full sized SDXC to try it out.

However, I can't seem to get the camera to go back to using the internal memory. When I first did the Basic Set-Up (I just got this camera for Christmas), I selected using removable memory. Doesn't seem to want to let me move out of that. (When I take the existing SD card out, shut camera off, then turn it back on I get repeated "No Memory Card" message.) Used the large PDF User Manual to try and find out how to do that but came up with zip.

Any guidance there would help, too.

Thank you!