topic Re: 60D owner for 10 years deciding whether to buy R6 mark 2 or R7? in Gear Guide

60D owner for 10 years deciding whether to buy R6 mark 2 or R7?

kodiakak — Sat, 23 Dec 2023 21:24:59 GMT

I do a lot of wildlife photography Bears Birds and I'm in the field. I tried the R8 a good camera but battery life small buffer inadequate evf what's the deal breaker. I have a lot of money tied up in Canon lenses so I'm sticking with Canon for me the choice was either R6 Mark II or R7. Only hesitation is the full frame crop factor on my 400 mm lens. can I compensate with an extender? Zoom in photoshop?

Re: 60D owner for 10 years deciding whether to buy R6 mark 2 or R7?

deebatman316 — Sat, 23 Dec 2023 21:50:29 GMT

What lenses do you already have and what is your budget for a camera or a kit (camera + lens). Please provide the full name of the lenses you already own. Are they Canon brand lenses or 3rd Party lenses.

Re: 60D owner for 10 years deciding whether to buy R6 mark 2 or R7?

shadowsports — Sat, 23 Dec 2023 22:14:22 GMT

Greetings,

If you have the budget, I'd opt for the R62 and RF 200-800.

Not sure which 400mm you are referring to. EF 100-400?

Other things you may want to consider. The R62 is going to give you better low light and iso performance. Also better subject separation in day to day photography. If you crop your photos a lot in post, the higher resolution of the R7 might work out better for you. It has good low light performance, but does not compare to the full frame sensor in the R62. The R7 and R62 both use the LP-E6NH which is larger than what comes in the R8. Because they are larger, you get the bigger power source. 🙂

If you are heavily invested in EF lenses, I'd go with the R62. If you crop a lot or have a larger number of APS-C lenses you can opt for the the R7. I'd try to avoid the TC, and compensate with the crop sensor and lens you have now. Otherwise go for the full frame sensor and a lens with a longer FL.

Re: 60D owner for 10 years deciding whether to buy R6 mark 2 or R7?

Tronhard — Mon, 25 Dec 2023 02:49:28 GMT

I shoot mostly wildlife myself. I used to shoot macro mammals and a host of other animals, but as I am now resident in NZ, the name of the game is birds: often in deep bush with lots of clutter. I used to shoot with the 60D's amongst other cameras, so I have some sense of where you are coming from. I am now retired and produce digital images for display on web pages and display on digital devices, some large, plus some medium sized prints - around A2 metric.
I absolutely, and firmly echo Ricky's support for the R6MkII. I sold most of my DSLR gear (although I keep an 80D and 5DsR along with some EF lenses, including the 100-400L MkII). I went with the R5 and both R6 versions. I deliberately chose to avoid the R7 after both checking reviews I trusted, but also doing my own shooting.
While the idea of a crop sensor may sound appealing, the R7 was built to a budget and IMHO has some serious flaws.
Sensor: while it has a 32MP APS-C sensor, that gives a pixel density equivalent to that of a 83MP FF sensor, which no maker has successfully approached. There are two implications from this:
- Rolling shutter: the high-speed electronic shutter was much touted for its frame rate of 30FPS, but because the sensor is slow - it is neither BSI or stacked, the refresh speed creates a lot of rolling shutter at high frame rates. One could use mechanical shutter at 15FPS, but it sounds extremely loud, and even on 1st curtain electronic is not ideal.
- Impact on buffer: because the data bus is slow: in part, because all that data is being sent to relatively slow SD cards, if one is shooting at high frame rates, using RAW, the buffer chokes after about 1.2sec! Not ideal. Also, there is evidence that the focusing system which is a cut-down version of that for the R3, (which has a fast data bus), and as a result it pulses at times as it tries to find focus, especially when eye tracking. Again, not stellar...

The body does not support a battery grip, so handling portrait mode with a large, heavy telephoto hand-held is unnecessarily awkward. There are 3rd party battery grips but they are somewhat clunky.

The R6II. Has a new 24MP sensor, excellent body, that accepts the same battery grip (BG-10) as the other R5 and R6 models. It has great sealing, fantastic focus and tracking and a fast data bus with high speed processors that support fast tracking, eye and face detection and tracking and reasonably high frame rates. The fast data buses and larger buffer make the use of dual SD cards more workable, and I have never had the camera choke on bursts.

While you can use your existing EF and EF-S lenses via the EF-RF adapter, I would not use EF-S lenses as they force the camera into APS-C mode, cropping the image area by a factor of 2.56 reducing your MP count from 24 to about 9.5MP - which may be acceptable, that depends on you.

As regards RF lenses, while one may not get the FoV boost from a crop sensor, I have used the fallowing lenses successfully with the R series bodies: EF 17-40L, 24-105L, 70-200L MkII, 30-300L, 100-400MkII L. However, if one puts on the native RF lenses the camera gets added performance from the combination of both IBIS and Optical stabilization, plus faster tracking. The RF lenses are brilliant! I use the following:
RF 14-35L, 24-105L f/4, 100-500L, - all are excellent optics and allow cropping if required.

Thus, in summary, the R6II is a brilliant camera. There will likely be an upgraded R7 at some stage, but if they invest in the tech to make it really work it will likely be a lot more expensive.

Re: 60D owner for 10 years deciding whether to buy R6 mark 2 or R7?

kodiakak — Sun, 24 Dec 2023 01:17:13 GMT

Hi Demetrius

All Canon lens. 100-400mm EF USM , 18-200mm EFS,10-18 EFS, 40mm EF STM. Budget not unlimited but concider anything

Re: 60D owner for 10 years deciding whether to buy R6 mark 2 or R7?

deebatman316 — Sun, 24 Dec 2023 01:44:09 GMT

Can you provide full model names of all the lenses. The EF 100-400mm has had 2 revisions. We need a budget. I also think you mean EF-S 18-200mm. Older lenses DO NOT support all features on the EOS R series. EF or EF-S STM zoom lenses support DPAF (Dual Pixel AF). Ring Type USM lenses released in 2009 or later and Nano USM lenses support most if not all features on the EOS R series. Micro Motor, Micro Motor USM, Ring Type USM lenses released prior to 2009, EF or EF-S prime (fixed focal length) lenses and AFD lenses don't support all features on the EOS R series. They also don't support DPAF (Dual Pixel AF) either. These lens' AF motors and aperture motors are too slow to keep up with mirrorless cameras. Note EF-S lenses causes the camera to apply a 1.6x crop. You also lose image sensor capacity since the lens projects a smaller image circle. For instance the R5 has 45 megapixels in Full Frame mode. But in 1.6x crop mode it's only 17.6 megapixels.

Re: 60D owner for 10 years deciding whether to buy R6 mark 2 or R7?

kodiakak — Sun, 24 Dec 2023 02:18:12 GMT

Thank you. Very usefull info. 40mm, 10-18mm and 100-400mm usm Rev 2 purchased from cannon 2019. The 18-200mm efs 2010. 2k budget for new lens. Dan

Re: 60D owner for 10 years deciding whether to buy R6 mark 2 or R7?

Tronhard — Sun, 24 Dec 2023 02:36:44 GMT

A big factor is precisely what you intend to produce. The resolutions required for large, detailed Fine Art images for sale is much greater than social media, digital display or more modest-sized prints.
The R6II is, IMHO, the leading camera in its class - a prosumer general-purpose camera. The R5 is a formidable camera at 45MP, and I use it a lot. The question is whether you need the 45MP sensor?
For wildlife, I would suggest considering the RF 100-500L and the brand new 200-800 IS USM, which is likely my next purchase.

There is some suggestion that Sigma may announce some native lenses for the RF mount in February, in which case I would not be surprised if they offer a 60-600s lens. I actually shoot with the EF version of this on all my R-series MILCs with no issues.

Re: 60D owner for 10 years deciding whether to buy R6 mark 2 or R7?

deebatman316 — Sun, 24 Dec 2023 02:25:54 GMT

The EF-S 18-200mm is NOT fully compatible with the EOS R series. It uses a very old and slow AF motor called "Micro Motor". This type of AF motor was released back in 1993 and has been retired years ago. It CAN NOT keep up on high FPS mirrorless cameras.

Re: 60D owner for 10 years deciding whether to buy R6 mark 2 or R7?

Tronhard — Sun, 24 Dec 2023 02:32:35 GMT

Agreed. I would question the value in depending the choice of FF vs crop on the fact one has an old lens that cannot be ported across to the R platform at all. Given a budget of $2k, that offers the opportunity for some great glass from Canon that is native RF: I have already mentioned the RF 100-50 and 200-800, but for a lower range the excellent RF 24-240 is a brilliant optic with a very wide focal range especially since the 18-200 under discussion would have an Equivalent FoV of 29-320mm which is not that different. Alternatively, the RF 24-105 (3 versions) and RF100-400 would give a massive focal range for FF in two lenses.

Re: 60D owner for 10 years deciding whether to buy R6 mark 2 or R7?

deebatman316 — Sun, 24 Dec 2023 03:04:11 GMT

I was going to ask the OP what they mainly shoot. I was going to say sell off the EF-S 18-200mm F/3.5-5.6 IS Micro Motor lens and EF-S 10-18mm F/4.5-5.6 IS STM lens if moving to Full Frame. The RF 24-240mm F/4-6.3 IS USM would be a great replacement to the EF-S 18-200mm F/3.5-5.6 IS Micro Motor lens. The RF 15-30mm F/4.5-6.3 IS STM would be a great replacement to the EF-S 10-18mm F/4.5-5.6 IS STM. The OP said a max of 2K for a lens. That fits in under budget. Since the EF 100-400mm F/4-5.6 IS II USM & EF 40mm F/2.8 STM are newer lenses they can be adapted very well. Those 2 lenses will also allow all features to be used on the EOS R series.

Re: 60D owner for 10 years deciding whether to buy R6 mark 2 or R7?

Tronhard — Sun, 24 Dec 2023 03:12:53 GMT

This was the first sentence of their first post:
"I do a lot of wildlife photography Bears Birds and I'm in the field." Which is pretty much what I shoot.
To me, that suggest long FL lenses that have great image stabilization. For the RF mount that would be:
100--400 at minimum quite low for bears
100-500 awesome lens, not cheap
200-800 new kid on the block, not a L, but well-built and fantastic FL.
I tried a sample unit and am really impressed. That would work well with the FF R6II

Re: 60D owner for 10 years deciding whether to buy R6 mark 2 or R7?

deebatman316 — Sun, 24 Dec 2023 03:13:07 GMT

The OP edited their opening post when I originally posted my comment earlier. So would selling off the EF-S 10-18mm, EF-S 18-200mm & EF 40mm lenses be a better choice. Since most wildlife is shot at 300mm or longer. Investing in newer RF Mount lenses instead such as the new RF 200-800mm USM. Then adapting the EF 100-400mm or selling it and replacing it for the RF Mount equivalent.

Re: 60D owner for 10 years deciding whether to buy R6 mark 2 or R7?

Tronhard — Sun, 24 Dec 2023 03:15:31 GMT

If the EF glass was sold off how about this?
R6II
RF 24-240
RF 200-800

Re: 60D owner for 10 years deciding whether to buy R6 mark 2 or R7?

deebatman316 — Sun, 24 Dec 2023 03:24:39 GMT

I was thinking of that combo too. Just starting over and not having to adapt older lenses. I've found older Micro Motor lenses are not able to keep up. It becomes very apparent on mirrorless cameras.

Re: 60D owner for 10 years deciding whether to buy R6 mark 2 or R7?

Tronhard — Sun, 24 Dec 2023 03:27:38 GMT

To me, for shooting bears in the wild, 100-400 is a tad short - even for some birding. I think the 100-500 at minimum, but as an L lens is likely to be more expensive than the even longer 200-800. That new lens is very impressive.

Re: 60D owner for 10 years deciding whether to buy R6 mark 2 or R7?

deebatman316 — Sun, 24 Dec 2023 03:31:18 GMT

I decided that the RF 200-800mm USM lens would be a better choice. Since the RF 24-240mm USM lens was brought up. That lens already covers more than half of the RF 100-400mm lens including more. The R6 Mark II was also the body I was looking at for Full Frame.

Re: 60D owner for 10 years deciding whether to buy R6 mark 2 or R7?

Tronhard — Sun, 24 Dec 2023 03:33:34 GMT

Well, looks like WE have come to a common conclusion. I guess it remains to be seen if our OP agrees! 🙂

Re: 60D owner for 10 years deciding whether to buy R6 mark 2 or R7?

deebatman316 — Sun, 24 Dec 2023 03:51:48 GMT

I found as time goes on it may be better to sell off older non-L lenses instead of adapting them. Then just starting new if your budget allows you too. If that particular lens or lenses have an equivalent in the RF Mount. I've been shrinking my APS-C lens and older non-L lens collection. I no longer own any APS-C lenses. I still have 2 consumer grade lens that were given to me by a family friend. When I do go to the RF Mount. All of my lenses have an equivalent replacement for them. Even though the focal lengths or apertures may not match exactly. Like for instance the EF 16-35mm F/2.8L III USM lens was replaced by the RF 15-35mm F/2.8L IS USM lens. Even though the new RF Mount version is 1 mm wider and adds IS now. Or for instance the EF 85mm F/1.8 USM lens was replaced by the RF 85mm F/2.0 Macro STM lens. Now not the exact same aperture. But the same focal length, it's a stop slower but it has Macro & IS capabilities. It also has an STM AF motor instead of a Ring Type USM AF motor. I think all newer lenses will go this direction now. Since USM lenses can't provide very quiet AF during video work.

Re: 60D owner for 10 years deciding whether to buy R6 mark 2 or R7?

Tronhard — Sun, 24 Dec 2023 04:14:39 GMT

Certainly see your logic. I still have some DSLRs - three are more memorabilia (although fully functional): the original D30 (2000), D60 (2002), 400D (Rebel Xti to you), and two others - the 80D and 5DsR. For them I still have the EF17-40L, EF 24-105L, EF 70-200L f/4 MkII IS USM, 70-300L, 100-400L MkII EF-S 18-135 IS USM. Sigma 150-600c, 60-600s. No immediate plans to dispose of them, although I just sold $20k worth of other legacy gear.
Present R inventory: R5, 2xR6, R6II, 14-35L, 24-105 f/4L, 24-240, 100-500L