topic Re: What lens should I buy? in Gear Guide

What lens should I buy? RF lens recommendations for novice

BDR_529 — Tue, 29 Oct 2024 13:45:21 GMT

Hello community, my name is Joseph. I am a complete novice. I have never owned a camera. It will be for my personal use and my new hobby, I am not going to be a professional. I have done some research and I am going to purchase the Canon R6 Mark III when it is released. But I can not figure out what lens to buy. I want the best but the best are so large and heavy I am afraid it will stop me from using my new camera. I would love to hear all suggestions. I am leaning toward either the RF 24-105 f/4 L IS USM or the RF 24-70 f/2.8 L IS USM. I know there is a big difference in price, but I am more concerned about size. So what lens should I buy first?

Re: What lens should I buy?

March411 — Sun, 27 Oct 2024 02:13:33 GMT

Hello Joseph, welcome to the forum.

I own the R6 MkII and love it, the R6 III should be a great purchase.

It may help to know what type(s) or styles of photography you will be focusing on to help with lens suggestions. If you are starting with general photography the two lenses you mentioned will be a nice start. I own the 24-70mm and it performs well in every way, I think either would be a great choice.

Re: What lens should I buy?

Tronhard — Sun, 27 Oct 2024 02:25:19 GMT

Hi and welcome!

There is a significant difference between the two lenses you mention. On one hand the RF24-70 f/2.8 has a narrow focal range but has one stop of light better performance than the Rf 24-105 f/4. In that respect it would be helpful to know if you have budget limits - these are not cheap lenses, and when the R6III comes out it will be at a price premium. The question would be do you need that extra stop of light? A lot of folks go for that and rarely use it - it's far from a universal statement but it begs the question of what you will need that stop for and whether it is worth giving up the extra focal length for.

At the moment the R6III body is just a rumor, and we will not know for sure its specs until an official announcement, hopefully some time in Q1 of 2025 - so you have time to save up.

Re: What lens should I buy?

BDR_529 — Sun, 27 Oct 2024 02:35:39 GMT

Thank you for suggestions. My focus will be general photography for now so I want versatility and convenience. But if I am spending that much money I don't want to end up wishing I had a lens that could capture a clear picture of my moving cat in low light or an in flight baseball.

Re: What lens should I buy?

Tronhard — Sun, 27 Oct 2024 02:58:17 GMT

The RF 24-105 f/4 is, IMHO, the better balance of versatility and low light performance. The 24-70 would likely be more effective where you want extremely narrow depth of field, which is less likely when you do not have a subject you can direct (like a human) for portraiture. The 24-105 range is the most common lens for general purpose work for a reason. As to the difference in aperture, camera sensors are really very capable of dealing with low light, so unless you are considering taking photos in extremely dim light f/4 should not be an issue.

Re: What lens should I buy?

BDR_529 — Sun, 27 Oct 2024 03:19:57 GMT

Thank you for your suggestions. I am willing to spend the extra money for the f/2.8. As I mentioned I am a complete novice so I don't know if I need the extra stop if light. I am very concerned about the size difference. Especially when I expand to the 70-200mm. The f/2.8 version of the 70-200 looks huge.

Re: What lens should I buy?

Tronhard — Sun, 27 Oct 2024 04:54:19 GMT

Jospeh:

If you are waiting until the R6III comes out, which will be at least 4 months to wait (probably closer to six), can I suggest in the meantime not committing to buying everything right now. I would like to think that my colleagues would not suggest that you spend significant sums on gear without knowledge to be sure that it is what you want.

Please Invest your resources in learning about the practice of photography first. It sounds like you are prepared to throw a lot of money at something about which you admit you have little knowledge. Expensive gear will not replace skill - as per the last line in my signature.
For a start, you are indicating conflicting preferences: the lenses that offer the largest aperture are large, expensive and heavy, yet you say you are concerned about weight. The highest-end gear will not work for you if you are not prepared to carry it

In the meantime, you can rent the gear and try it out to see what will work for you best. Please consider the guidelines in this article: Considerations for buying camera gear

So far we have no indication of a budget, we don't really know subjects what you want to photograph and under what conditions, and we don't know what you will produce. What you will therefore get is more our perspective on photography rather than what you will need and use. That is not a good way to approach buying camera gear.

You need to learn the way in which cameras measure light (metering), and how the three controls of the camera: Shutter, Aperture and ISO each work to allow the camera to get the right exposure. How auto modes can be fooled by the lighting conditions and how to overcome those limitations by taking control yourself. You also need to explore how the right exposure can be achieve by multiple different variations of those three, but how each has a significant impact on the resultant image. This will take time and you can't shortcut that learning process - so please invest your efforts in learning. Expensive camera gear will not, in itself, make you a better photographer.

If you want help in finding resources to learn, we can do that too.

Re: What lens should I buy?

WCETECH — Sun, 27 Oct 2024 12:34:27 GMT

If at all possible rent a lens to try out, then if you find it meets your needs you might consider buying it.

Re: What lens should I buy?

Tronhard — Mon, 28 Oct 2024 07:16:34 GMT

Why am I the only one encouraging our absolute newbie to learn something about photography when everyone else seems to want to spend his money on their favourite and expensive gear?
Let's encourage the OP to do some homework, maybe rent a camera and a lens or two and then be able to approach the rather expensive process of buying a camera and lenses with some experience.

For a start there are videos on You Tube to consider:

Plus a whole range of videos from Canon itself:
Canon EOS 101: Photo and Videography Basics | Canon U.S.A., Inc.

Joseph:
If you would like to check your local library on-line catalogue, there may well be a listing for an electronic resource called LinkedIn Learning. If you can follow that link you can gain free access with you library card number and PIN to a training site for all sorts of activities, including a massive array of video courses on photography conducted by skilled photographers and trainers. They are broken down into lessons with notes and, in some cases, exercises. If there is no link via catalogue, try LinkedIn Learning | Login there is a option to use your library card and PIN if your library has the subscription otherwise you can sign up for a free trial.

When you get to the site do a search for Introduction to Photography - you will find a complete curriculum on the science and art of photography from basics to advanced topics. I strongly recommend you check it out.

Re: What lens should I buy?

WCETECH — Mon, 28 Oct 2024 07:23:56 GMT

It's is a common error many who are getting into something new fall into, that being thinking having lots of expensive gear make for a better photographer. Too often it is learned by seeing what others have that the beginner does not.

It is an expensive error that takes all the fun out of what could be a wonderful hobby.

Re: What lens should I buy?

Tronhard — Mon, 28 Oct 2024 07:52:42 GMT

As someone once said, a lot of people own a camera with no experience and call themselves a photographer, if they own a violin with no experience, they can say only that they own a violin.

The LinkedIn learning site is a fabulous learning tool. I just went in to check it via my own subscription and got hooked on the presentation of Introduction to Photography by Ben Long - he is a skilled teacher and does so with a great sense of humour.

Re: What lens should I buy?

Tronhard — Mon, 28 Oct 2024 08:22:42 GMT

I used to train people providing sales advice (not just for photography) and the first thing they had to do was step outside of their own preferences and look at the situation from the client's point of view - that is who they are serving and their needs may be far different from the preferences of the consultant. We have the same challenge here.

It is easy to get enthralled in the technology but servicing a client is based on understanding three things:

1. Benefits: These are specific and personal to the client and represent something they are seeking to either improve their performance or remove a constraint to what they are trying to achieve. Such benefits are not usually expressed in purely technical terms.
2. Features: are characteristics that are built into a product or service and offered by a vendor to a market space - as such they cover a wide gamut of possibilities, some of which may, or may not, be applicable to the consumer.
3. Value: only exists when one can map a set of required benefits to a set of features without missing critical ones and without investing in a lot of features that are not required.

As such the questions we would pose to someone would not be so much technical as for results or outcomes and limitations to choice. For example, an outcome could be : "I want to take landscapes to be posted on social media and displayed on digital screens, and perhaps mount on calendars and I have a budget limit for camera and lenses of $#####."

I wrote a brief article on the subject to which I will link here:
Considerations for buying or updating camera equipment

Very often people come to this site with some preconceptions and those can be stoked by encouragement to buy gear that our members like or use themselves. Yet, very often we lack (or ignore) those fundamental pieces of information from the client with which to make suggestions that are best for them. It's very common, that this is a classic case. At the moment we don't have a budget, we don't really know the outcomes or any other constraints. All we can really be sure of is that the OP is a self-confessed newbie.

To me, THAT is where we have to start, both to teach the basic vocabulary of photography so we avoid confusion and to let them learn enough to be able to deal with the options open to meet their needs. Hence, my concentration on learning tools.

Re: What lens should I buy?

WCETECH — Mon, 28 Oct 2024 10:03:44 GMT

2. Features: are characteristics that are built into a product or service and offered by a vendor to a market space - as such they cover a wide gamut of possibilities, some of which may, or may not, be applicable to the consumer.

3. Value: only exists when one can map a set of required benefits to a set of features without missing critical ones and without investing in a lot of features that are not required.

Those are all good points however over the years I have discovered a lot of people first getting into photography really don't know what they want to do, all too often and many times repeated in photo forums is, I want to do wildlife photography or street scenes or etc, etc, etc, but when it comes down to actually doing something they hit a dead end that too often seems to lead back into buying more gear.

My philosophy is and has always been carry a basic, might I say used camera with a simple fixed auto focus lens and shoot anything that interests one, don't make it a task, just do it for the fun of it and when one gets really good at doing that maybe consider another body and variable length lens.

Keep it simple learn how to walk before trying to run, it prevents discouragement and burning holes in ones wallet.

I fell into photography quite by accident, a relative who literally had cabinets filled with cameras noticed I paid a lot of attention to a TLR in one of the cabinets and would let me play with it, taking pictures kept me busy all day long, now that was imaginary as it didn't have any film in it but I was actually, without realizing, learning how to use that camera.

Then one day he handed me a nicer camera, it had a crank on the side and more things to learn about, he loaded it with a roll of 120, I was giving some basic advice on f-stops and was told to be careful as I only had 12 shots, the following week I was shown how to develop and contact print my roll of B&W photos and that was it I was hooked for life.

It wasn't until many years later I took a photography class and it was a mess, the class was more of a gear head event with many so called students carrying bags filled with lens's and a body or three, while a few of us only had a camera and a lens, mine was a T-50 with a 50mm lens shooting Tri-X, as I could develop and print that myself.

As such your advice of taking a on-line class is a much better choice, less gear head interruptions and distractions, one can go at their own pace, some of us learn quickly others not so much and then there are folks like myself who often misunderstand something and being able to go back and re-review something is a very important feature.

None the less it was at that class I discovered there are two types of photographers, those who spend all day flipping through catalogs and spending every dime they can muster up on gear and those who go out and capture excellent winning shots.

I am so glad I never got into the gear head thing, for the most part they spend a lot, produce little and have very little fun in the process.

By keeping it basic and as inexpensive as possible sooner or later it will be discovered what one has interests in photographing forming a solid baseline to properly make more expensive decisions.

Re: What lens should I buy?

WCETECH — Mon, 28 Oct 2024 10:11:38 GMT

What lens should I buy?

This reply ought to be made a sticky at the top of the forum as the same question is asked over and over again ,

Re: What lens should I buy?

Tronhard — Tue, 29 Oct 2024 03:07:05 GMT

Well, I hope that Joseph takes the advice and spends some time with the resources I, or others, can find as learning platforms. If nothing else, such knowledge will help him navigate the language and technical characteristics of cameras and lenses.
Combine that with practice - whether it be renting gear or buying a camera they could use as a second unit - an R6 or R6II (as he seems to have a lot of funding) would share much of the same features including batteries with an R6III (which is still vapourware). and get just one lens to use as a learning tool. I would suggest the RF 24-105 f/4 - it's not outrageously expensive and is a great walk-around and general-purpose optic, and would not be wasted money. Then go out and take photos and look at them critically.
Mind you, the R6 variants are not by any means unsophisticated or ineffective cameras: both are brilliant and are capable of producing excellent professional-quality results - which is rather the point.

To quote one of my favourite photographers, Sean Tucker:
"The act of shooting will make you a better photographer much faster than having a fancy camera".
Working pro's often do not have the latest gear, they use what they have to the max and with efficiency. Some of my best photos (for sale or private use) were taken with relatively humble equipment. As a case in point, this rather fun video is worth watching.

Re: What lens should I buy?

MPBACK — Mon, 28 Oct 2024 17:49:56 GMT

For myself the 24-105L lens both EF and now RF series have done roughly 75% of my work. Occasionally I will use an ultra-wide or a 70-200f4L. I know the 24-702.8L is a stellar lens but not really much of a plus in terms of versatility for a landscape photographer. I use my cameras on IBIS mode or on a tripod and shoot and typically f11-f16 so no real need for a 2.8 All my lenses ate f4 L series. So, my vote is to use the highly versatile EF 24-105L.

Re: What lens should I buy?

Tronhard — Mon, 28 Oct 2024 18:07:52 GMT

A lot depends on what one shoots, under what conditions. For myself, I have a selection of L zoom lenses all at f/4 - for me, they are a good balance between economics, bulk and weight, and performance. Like you, I find no need for the extra stop and the IBIS does the job for me - I almost always shoot hand-held. If I am shooting a portrait, I can set the subject up in such as way as to distance them from the background and get the separation I need.

That said, I don't shoot a lot of sports by night, macro, or astro photography so for those applications difference criteria certainly apply - it's horses for courses. However, as we have no idea what Jonathon actually intends to photograph, we are challenged to map our preferences to his needs.

Re: What lens should I buy?

BDR_529 — Sat, 02 Nov 2024 19:32:51 GMT

I would like to assuage some concerns. Let me be clear. I have completed 1 beginner online video course and begun another with real world homework. I would like to try the suggested LinkedIn Learning next(thx for suggestion). This is all so that I will have a base of knowledge when it comes time to purchase the R6III and 1 lens. My budget is the price of a new R6III plus 1 lens. Assuming the R6III retails for $3000 or less that would make my budget $6000 for body/lens. Picking up photography is my retirement gift to myself that I have been saving for and thinking about for years. I don't what "OP" is, but I hope it's good.

Re: What lens should I buy?

Tronhard — Tue, 29 Oct 2024 19:03:35 GMT

Thanks for the clarification Joseph. I was concerned for you. Do you have some kind of camera that you can work with on these courses? The practical application of the principals will help your learning uptake considerably.

OP is Original Poster - the person who authored the thread and thus the first post! 🙂 So, no disrespect to you.

Re: What lens should I buy?

BDR_529 — Tue, 29 Oct 2024 18:49:06 GMT

I do not have a camera. I've been using my phone. I thought I might be able to learn some fundamentals until I get a camera. While also learning how to use my Samsung S24 Ultra camera better. Which is already paying off for me with my vacation pics.