topic Re: Newbie with Questions about Proper Equipment for Birding in Gear Guide

Newbie with Questions about Proper Equipment for Birding

WingMan71 — Thu, 09 Jan 2025 19:52:28 GMT

Hello. Newbie here. Just bought a Canon EOS Rebel T7 with two lenses: an EFS 18-55mm and an EF 75-300mm. Yes, I realize that this is entry level equipment, but I had a purpose in mind that I thought it would be sufficient for.

Was hoping that the 75-300mm lens would be sufficient for getting some good close-up shots of my backyard birds, which are numerous. My bird feeders are about 20 yards from where I can stand to take the shots without spooking the birds.

Turns out the 300mm lens is just not getting me the magnification that I want. I can get closer-up shots with the camera in my Samsung Galaxy S23. (Yes, I realize that the cellphone camera uses digital zoom and clarity suffers, but I never plan to actually print any of these pictures.)

So, the question is: What do equipment do I need to get closer shots of birds about 20 yards away?

Before you answer, I bought this equipment used from a well-known camera shop in the area. So, my budget is limited. Do I look for another lens, say a used 100-400mm Canon lens from the same shop, or is that not even enough? Do I get a used teleconverter from the same shop? If so, which power teleconverter?

Any advice would be appreciated. Thanks!

Re: Newbie with Questions about Proper Equipment for Birding

March411 — Thu, 09 Jan 2025 21:28:09 GMT

Hey WingMan71, welcome to the site.

Limited budget is a pretty loose term so I will suggest the Sigma and Tamron 150-600mm which many use for wildlife with a focus on birding. Sigma you have the Contemporary and Sport and on the Tamron side most say the SP 150-600mm f/5-6.3 Di VC USD G2 is a slightly better lens. Either will give you great images. I shot the Sigma for a long time before going RF and once I made the move to an R body grabbed the 20-800mm and my Sigma now is pretty lonely. KEH and MPB both have some lenses in stock that you can view to see if they fit into your budget.

The link below is to a thread about the EF 100-400mm that you may find interesting.

Similar Conversation on zoom lenses

[Commercial links removed per community guidelines and replaced with screenshots to act as visual aids.]

Re: Newbie with Questions about Proper Equipment for Birding

jrhoffman75 — Thu, 09 Jan 2025 21:24:24 GMT

If you use Canon DPP with your images you can use the 2X zoom function when editing to see how the 150-600mm lens will do for you.

I have the 100-400mm V2 lens. I ran some informal tests comparing using the 1.4X teleconverter vs cropping the image. I didn't see a difference. The advantage of no teleconverter is faster AF and no loss of exposure.

Your success is going to be a function of distance, the size of the birds you are photographing and the size of the end result image you want.

Re: Newbie with Questions about Proper Equipment for Birding

Tintype_18 — Thu, 09 Jan 2025 23:04:35 GMT

I have the Sigma 150-600. Good lens and takes good distance photos.

Re: Newbie with Questions about Proper Equipment for Birding

ebiggs1 — Fri, 10 Jan 2025 16:16:33 GMT

"My bird feeders are about 20 yards from where I can stand..."

That is your problem more than the lens you have. You need to exchange the word yards for feet. At 20 yards there isn't many lenses that are going to make a small bird fill the frame.

If you got to 20 feet or even closer your lens will probably do a decent job. However you do have a poor lens for the job so one of the so-called super zooms is a great idea. My favorite is the Tamron SP 150-600mm f/5-6.3 Di VC USD G2. However any of them will do a good job for you. Know they are big and much heavier than the lens you have but that is what it takes. The best one is the Tamron but make sure it is the G2 model.

Here are a few tips that are free and won't cost you a dime. Get DPP4 from Canon. It is a free d/l. DPP4 will let you do some amazing stuff with your photos. You can do as little or as much editing as you want. Plus there are many tutorials about how to use it. The second tip which is also free is to set the T7 to use raw format and never jpg. Raw has way more ability to be edited than jpg. Use One shot and just the center focus point. Set ISO to a higher number say 400. Most of the time P mode will work but be ready to use or exposure settings if the conditions warrant it.

This was shot from about 15 feet with my Sigma 150-600mm f/5-6.3 DG DN OS Sports Lens.

Re: Newbie with Questions about Proper Equipment for Birding

March411 — Fri, 10 Jan 2025 16:47:54 GMT

Here are the links to the software ebiggs mentioned, I can't see any of the Apple downloads as the Canon site is intuitive and only displays software applicable to the OS I use when I enter the site.

Digital Photo Professional 4.19.30 Windows

EOS / PowerShot / SELPHY Apps & software

Re: Newbie with Questions about Proper Equipment for Birding

WingMan71 — Sat, 11 Jan 2025 00:59:55 GMT

Thanks so much everyone for all the advice. Soaking in the lessons as fast as I can.

I found a used Sigma DG 50-500mm f/4.5-6.3 APO HSM Canon mount lens locally for a good price.

What do you think about that lens for birding at anywhere from 15 to 20 yards? Sufficient, or should I hold out for a 150-600mm I can afford?

Re: Newbie with Questions about Proper Equipment for Birding

March411 — Sat, 11 Jan 2025 01:11:53 GMT

WingMan7,

that lens was announced by Sigma in 2000 and released in 2001, is no longer in production and discontinued. It's a 24 year old lens and possibly can't even be serviced any more let alone update the firmware. The Sigma 150-600mm is still in production in the Contemporary (C) version and supported by Sigma.

Personally I would put away a little more cash and get the Tamron or Sigma 150-600mm, the 100mm on the long end will be nice for smaller wildlife. Also, the one in the picture looks a little bit worn.

Re: Newbie with Questions about Proper Equipment for Birding

WingMan71 — Sat, 11 Jan 2025 01:19:43 GMT

Thanks for that information. I'll save up for one of the 150-600mm lenses.

Re: Newbie with Questions about Proper Equipment for Birding

March411 — Sat, 11 Jan 2025 01:28:14 GMT

Both the one's suggested are still supported and if you by from KEH, MPB or a authorized reseller you normally get some type of warranty.

Re: Newbie with Questions about Proper Equipment for Birding

ebiggs1 — Sat, 11 Jan 2025 20:59:15 GMT

"What do you think about that lens for birding at anywhere from 15 to 20 yards?"

There isn't anything wrong with that tele zoom it is the yards that is the problem. However, you need to start thinking feet and not yards even a 600mm tele isn't going to be much better if you are 20 yards from subject.

I had one of those tele zooms and it is a nice lens not as sharp as the newer Sigma 105-600mm C or S tele zooms of today but certainly useable. They are really nice lenses. I still have the Sigma 150-500mm super zoom which a very sharp lens.

Feet not yards! 😁

Re: Newbie with Questions about Proper Equipment for Birding

Waddizzle — Sat, 11 Jan 2025 21:23:58 GMT

“ My bird feeders are about 20 yards from where I can stand to take the shots without spooking the birds. “

I think it’s also time to rethink your plan of action. You’re not going to have much success walking up to take photos, nor just standing around waiting for one to land.

I suggest that you pull up a chair, put the camera on a tripod, and pre-focus the lens on the feeder. Preferably, you want to be somewhere out of their direct line of sight, of course. But, I have sat on a park bench near a watering fountain for birds and captured some decent photos. Got some good reading in , too!

Re: Newbie with Questions about Proper Equipment for Birding

johnrmoyer — Sat, 11 Jan 2025 22:47:38 GMT

20 yards will be difficult for a small bird, depending upon how much you are willing to crop. I often sit outside in a lawn chair and photograph birds when they perch before going to the feeder. The feeder is about 20 meters from my office window and even though the window distorts the photo, I will make photos through the window especially if it is an unusual for my house bird. The gets me a good enough photo to document the sighting on ebird. The birds that come to my feeder every day recognize me and will come as soon as I put seed in the feeder. These birds are comfortable with me sitting in a chair within 15 meters so long as I do not move much.

The EF70-300mm f/4-5.6 IS II USM seems to me a very good lens for the price.

On my web server at: https://www.rsok.com/~jrm/2024Oct30_birds_and_cats/2024oct27_bluejay_IMG_2196c.html

Blue Jay (Cyanocitta cristata) on a Virginia Creeper (Parthenocissus quinquefolia) vine in Norman, Oklahoma, United States on October 27, 2024 ; EF100-400mm f/4.5-5.6L IS II USM ; Focus Distance Lower 12.46 m ; Focus Distance Upper 15.12 m

When I go to the wildlife refuge where the birds are more wary, the distances are greater. https://www.rsok.com/~jrm/2024Oct22_Salt_Plains/2024oct22_killdeer_IMG_2135c.html

Killdeer (Charadrius vociferus) at Salt Plains National Wildlife Refuge in Alfalfa County, Oklahoma, United States on October 22, 2024 ; EF100-400mm f/4.5-5.6L IS II USM +2x III ; Focus Distance Lower 18.82 m ; Focus Distance Upper 24.09 m

And for a lower budget example, before I got the EF 100-400, https://www.rsok.com/~jrm/2017Mar15_birds_and_cats/2017mar14_phoebe_IMG_2229.html

This worked in live view mode only. EF70-300mm f/4-5.6 IS II USM + Kenko Teleplus HD C-AF 2X DGX teleconverter , EOS 80D , F/16 , 1/664 second , 600mm, ISO 1250. Gimp with GMIC plugin was used instead of Canon DPP Digital Lens Optimizer because DPP does not recognize the Kenko. Distance reported by camera is half the actual distance.

Phoebe, Mar. 14, 2017 ; The reason that the focal length is listed as 600mm for a 300mm lens is that a Kenko Teleplus HD C-AF 2X DGX teleconverter was attached. This was taken hand held while sitting on a chair in the shade. The gimp gmic plugin Richardson-Lucy deconvolution was used to remove small aperture diffraction blur. F/11 is wide open for this combination of lens and teleconverter. F/16.0 give greater depth of field. Focus was manual. After cropping and resizing to 50%, an unsharp mask was applied.

Re: Newbie with Questions about Proper Equipment for Birding

Ron888 — Tue, 14 Jan 2025 03:58:44 GMT

Wow what a massive difference. The 100-400L II is razor sharp while the 70-300+TC is terrible

Re: Newbie with Questions about Proper Equipment for Birding

johnrmoyer — Tue, 14 Jan 2025 11:23:27 GMT

@Ron888 wrote:

Wow what a massive difference. The 100-400L II is razor sharp while the 70-300+TC is terrible

There are differences other than the lenses.

The 3rd party teleconverter is much less expensive than the Canon and produces less contrast at edges. There is greater acutance with the Canon teleconverter but the canon cannot be used with that lens.
Over the years my skills have improved.
There is much more small aperture diffraction blur with the Kenko than with the Canon because F/16 vs. F/11 and the Canon software likely has better information about the point spread function than does the GMIC Richardson/Lucy deconvolution. ( R/L in GMIC assumes circular aperture and gaussian spread ) ( I might have done better with F/13 instead of F/16 if the biggest problem were diffraction and not focus )
The distance is greater between camera and bird with the Kenko which results in more distortion caused by varying air densities, out of focus insects in the air, and dust in the air.
I used manual focus with the Kenko and possibly the focus was not as accurate as it might have been.
I had better light for the Killdeer than for the Phoebe.

Re: Newbie with Questions about Proper Equipment for Birding

TomRamsey — Sat, 18 Jan 2025 13:40:13 GMT

I had done birds with a 300 lens for years, it’s not easy but it can be done. A lot of techniques involve trying to get closer, and learning about the behavior of the birds. A teleconverter can be a big help, but probably not with that lens. It’s not the season right now, but migrating birds can be easier to get closer too. They migrate mostly at night, and when they come down in the mornings they need food and are a little more tolerant of people. But migration is only a few weeks of the year, and if you are not near a migration hotspot you may not find much. So I think the longer lens is an appropriate next step. I rented a Sigma 50-500 years ago and it was pretty good, but those are pretty old now, they haven’t produced them for years. If the orice is low enough to take a chance OK, but not serious money. Just a few months ago I bought into the R system so I could buy an RF 200-800, even with that 20 yards is a long way for a small bird, but I can crop and get good details. I have a friend in Australia that regularly shoots birds very close from a window and has excellent results, unfortunately my windows have screens and I have a cat that would go right out.
I have also done the suggestion here of setting a chair up which works with some of the birds. Carolina Chickadees will come with in a few feet (when I don’t have a camera!), stealth and slow movements can help. In the woods I’ve often held the camera close to my face, because I’ve seen birds flush when you lift the camera to shoot. Lots of little things you find out, but anyway, go for the longer lens, an good shooting.