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New Contributor
Posts: 4
Registered: ‎06-02-2017

Photogrammetry lenses - something like Canon EF-S 10-22mm f/3.5-4.5 USM for full frame?

Dear all,

i recently started employing photogrammetry in process of documenting medieval architecture. I have been working with Canon EOS 50D with Canon EF-S 10-22mm f/3.5-4.5 USM lenses - exteriors and details with lightening work fine, but interior spaces are, of course, a disaster besause of light issues. Besides getting some more powerfull artificial lightening, I have been thinking about upgrading the gear to full frame (Canon 6D). Now comes the problem - where to find an equivalent lenses to Canon EF-S 10-22mm? Prime lens would be nice (I suppose), or wide angle zoom, should work best around 20mm, with good light falloff allowing to use it more open than f/8 with good result. There are many lenses with much lower blur than mine, but I didnt find anything as good in terms of geometric distortion available for full frame.

Does anybody experienced has a tip?

Honored Contributor
Posts: 5,469
Registered: ‎08-13-2015

Re: Photogrammetry lenses - something like Canon EF-S 10-22mm f/3.5-4.5 USM for full frame?

[ Edited ]

Eliska wrote:

Dear all,

i recently started employing photogrammetry in process of documenting medieval architecture. I have been working with Canon EOS 50D with Canon EF-S 10-22mm f/3.5-4.5 USM lenses - exteriors and details with lightening work fine, but interior spaces are, of course, a disaster besause of light issues. Besides getting some more powerfull artificial lightening, I have been thinking about upgrading the gear to full frame (Canon 6D).

Now comes the problem - where to find an equivalent lenses to Canon EF-S 10-22mm? Prime lens would be nice (I suppose), or wide angle zoom, should work best around 20mm, with good light falloff allowing to use it more open than f/8 with good result. There are many lenses with much lower blur than mine, but I didnt find anything as good in terms of geometric distortion available for full frame.

Does anybody experienced has a tip?


The EF-S 10-22mm f/3.5-f/4.5 USM lens on your 50D gives an angle-of-view that is that is nearly identical to using the EF 16-35mm f/2.8L II USM lens on a 6D, across the entire zoom range.  In other words, you're not going to get a wider angle of view without introducing barrel distortion associated with most ultra-wide angle lenses.

As for your lighting issues, do you use a tripod?  Try taking a long exposure on a tripod at ISO 100 in Av mode.  Natural lighting will always looks better than shots that show obvioius signs of artificial lighting.

 

IMG_2015_09_190383.WEB.jpg

You have an excellent lens, in the EF-S 10-22mm.  The image quality rivals Canon's "L" Series ultra-wide angle zoom lenses. If you are getting blurry photos with it, then you may need to review your technique.  Blurry photos sounds like your shutter speed is too slow.  Raise your shutter speed, or use a tripod.  

If I were taking architectural photos, I would use a tripod for every shot.  You may need to capture HDR shots when you have windows in the shots, which should almost demand that you use a tripod.

 

IMG_0039.JPG

The above photo is an HDR composite of three shots, taken at -1, 0, and +1 Ev.  The background was so brightly lit, that a more conventional exposure would the foreground in complete shadow.  Even the composite required so more tweaking.

The shots were handheld, but the camera was in continuous shooting mode, so I could quickly run off three shots.  I used a 6D and the EF 16-35mm f/2.8L II USM, at 16mm.  This angle of view would be identical to using your 50D with your lens set to 10mm.

I'm not sure what problems you think a full frame camera body can solve, but getting a much wider angle-of-view is one of them.  A 20mm lens on a full frame would be equivalent to near the low end of your EF-S 10-22mm lens.  Again, the 10-22mm on your 50D gives an angle-of-view that is equivalent to the EF 16-35mm across the entire zoom range.

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New Contributor
Posts: 4
Registered: ‎06-02-2017

Re: Photogrammetry lenses - something like Canon EF-S 10-22mm f/3.5-4.5 USM for full frame?

Than you cor your reply.

For taking single photos, im used to take a tripod. But the light problem with protogrammetry is more complicated - to make a good model, i often need to shoot over 500 images in one space, all with the same manually fixed exposition, and for good results approx 1/3 of them must be taken from somewhere higt above, mostly standing on a ladder. Using tripod is not an option there, so im limited by the exposure time i can hold in hand. I dont care about the aesthetic qualities of the photos, the quality of photogrammetry depends on number of shots, their positioning and the visibility of fine details and surface structures.

 

pud2 s.jpg

 

rez2a s.jpg

 

I hope to obtain a better results with a camera with better low light parametres than 50D. I dont understand much about photography itself (im mainly surveyor) and I presumed, that parametres of 6D should mean a significant step-up.

With lenses, im very happy with my current lens and angle given by 22mm is perfect for my work (could be even slightly smaller). The only problem is, the lens would not work with full frame. I was hoping that prime lens could give me even more light and speed, but i was not quite impressed by the geometric distortion. None of them seems to offer the close to zero distortion, which 10-22mm gives.

 

 

Respected Contributor
Posts: 1,819
Registered: ‎02-26-2015

Re: Photogrammetry lenses - something like Canon EF-S 10-22mm f/3.5-4.5 USM for full frame?


Eliska wrote:

Than you cor your reply.

For taking single photos, im used to take a tripod. But the light problem with protogrammetry is more complicated - to make a good model, i often need to shoot over 500 images in one space, all with the same manually fixed exposition, and for good results approx 1/3 of them must be taken from somewhere higt above, mostly standing on a ladder. Using tripod is not an option there, so im limited by the exposure time i can hold in hand. I dont care about the aesthetic qualities of the photos, the quality of photogrammetry depends on number of shots, their positioning and the visibility of fine details and surface structures.

 

pud2 s.jpg

 

rez2a s.jpg

 

I hope to obtain a better results with a camera with better low light parametres than 50D. I dont understand much about photography itself (im mainly surveyor) and I presumed, that parametres of 6D should mean a significant step-up.

With lenses, im very happy with my current lens and angle given by 22mm is perfect for my work (could be even slightly smaller). The only problem is, the lens would not work with full frame. I was hoping that prime lens could give me even more light and speed, but i was not quite impressed by the geometric distortion. None of them seems to offer the close to zero distortion, which 10-22mm gives.

 

 


The 6D will gain you a few stops of light over the 50D. The EF-S 10-18 IS STM will gain you a few stops of image stabilization while handholding your 50D. The EF-S 10-18 IS STM is very reasonably priced and worth trying before spending thousands of dollars on new gear. 

VIP
Posts: 8,139
Registered: ‎12-07-2012

Re: Photogrammetry lenses - something like Canon EF-S 10-22mm f/3.5-4.5 USM for full frame?

[ Edited ]

This suggestion, "  I used a 6D and the EF 16-35mm f/2.8L II USM,..." is going to be head and shoulders better that what you are currently using.  As long as you are simply comparing the gear.  Whatever you got with you current gear will be better with this suggestion.

 

Another very good option would be the EOS 6D EOS 50D (corrected edit) and the Sigma 18-35mm f/1.8 DC HSM Art Lens for Canon.  Either of these lenses are good enough for accurate measurements.  These are just suggestions as there are several more.  You may want to explore some of the very good prime lenses in or around this focal length.

 

Examples might be the Sigma 50mm f/1.4 DG HSM Art Lens for Canon EF which just may be the sharpest lens made.  Need to be wider, the Sigma 35mm f/1.4 DG HSM Art Lens for Canon. Extremely sharp lens. Wider, Sigma 24mm f/1.4 DG HSM Art Lens for Canon.

 

Want to stick with Canon?  EF 35mm f/1.4L II USM, EF 24mm f/1.4L II USM and the amazing EF 14mm f/2.8L II USM.  Any of these will be a solid choice and very much better than what you currently have.

A lot of Canon stuff. Along with, a lot of other stuff.
Respected Contributor
Posts: 1,819
Registered: ‎02-26-2015

Re: Photogrammetry lenses - something like Canon EF-S 10-22mm f/3.5-4.5 USM for full frame?

[ Edited ]

ebiggs1 wrote:

 

Another very good option would be the EOS 6D and the Sigma 18-35mm f/1.8 DC HSM Art Lens for Canon.  

 


The Sigma 18-35mm is a crop sensor lens, it would result in significant vignetting at all focal lengths when used on a full frame camera like the 6D. At the wide end, you would have an image circle nearly completely surrounded by black. 

 

sigma 18-35.JPG

Respected Contributor
Posts: 1,982
Registered: ‎02-17-2016

Re: Photogrammetry lenses - something like Canon EF-S 10-22mm f/3.5-4.5 USM for full frame?

Look into a camera that has "Hand held Night scene" It takes 4 shots and merges them into a single one. Each individual shot can have a faster shutter speed.

 

Other than that, spray and pray. Take about 6-10 shots, one is bound to be sharper than the others.

Would a video steadicam rig work?

VIP
Posts: 8,139
Registered: ‎12-07-2012

Re: Photogrammetry lenses - something like Canon EF-S 10-22mm f/3.5-4.5 USM for full frame?

Tommy Boy you did good. Great catch.   Of course I meant to keep the 50D and get the Sigma 18-35mm f/1.8 DC HSM Art Lens for Canon as an option.  I got to try this lens on a T6i and it, actually both the camera and the lens, is amazing.  The Sigma Art series are beautiful lenses.

A lot of Canon stuff. Along with, a lot of other stuff.
VIP
Posts: 8,139
Registered: ‎12-07-2012

Re: Photogrammetry lenses - something like Canon EF-S 10-22mm f/3.5-4.5 USM for full frame?

" i often need to shoot over 500 images in one space,..."

 

If you are shooting that much, more than just once in a while, you probably want to stay away from the so-called "kit", "STM" lenses.  They are designed as consumer products and aren't built as well as the more pro orientated lenses.

A lot of Canon stuff. Along with, a lot of other stuff.
Respected Contributor
Posts: 1,819
Registered: ‎02-26-2015

Re: Photogrammetry lenses - something like Canon EF-S 10-22mm f/3.5-4.5 USM for full frame?


ebiggs1 wrote:

" i often need to shoot over 500 images in one space,..."

 

If you are shooting that much, more than just once in a while, you probably want to stay away from the so-called "kit", "STM" lenses.  They are designed as consumer products and aren't built as well as the more pro orientated lenses.


Well, the old geezer is finally off his rocker. By the way that's not what I meant when I said you needed to get off your porch. 

 

There is little chance of seeing a failure in the zoom, focus, or aperture, mechanisms (the moving parts) of ANY current Canon lens.

 

Eliska, don't let someone try to scare you into spending thousands of dollars when a few hundred will do. 

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