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Occasional Contributor
Posts: 7
Registered: ‎09-11-2017

Re: Newbie looking for body and lens recommendations to use in motorsports/automotive shoots

Scott, Thanks for your suggestion on the 7D, it seems everyone feels that's the way for me to start out. Thanks for the 70-200 & 17-55 lens recommendations.
Respected Contributor
Posts: 1,697
Registered: ‎12-02-2012

Re: Newbie looking for body and lens recommendations to use in motorsports/automotive shoots

My buddy had one of those Honda coupes and I drove it. Very nice.  I hear they are going to start making it again. 

Scott

Canon 6D, EF 70-200mm L f/2.8 IS mk2; EF 16-35 f/2.8 L mk. III; Sigma 35mm f/1.4 "Art" EF 100mm f/2.8L Macro; EF 85mm f/1.8; EF 1.4x extender mk. 3; EF 24-105 f/4 L; EF-S 17-55mm f/2.8 IS; 3x Phottix Mitros+ speedlites

Why do so many people say "FER-tographer"? Do they take "fertographs"?
Esteemed Contributor
Posts: 2,150
Registered: ‎11-14-2012

Re: Newbie looking for body and lens recommendations to use in motorsports/automotive shoots

TT your sample is good but in general we try to show some motion blur in Motorsports with a few exceptions. The one venue where freezing everything in the frame seems to be standard practice is Motocross. There's usually lots of stuff in the frame to imply speed but when it's cars racing around the track & you're shooting from the side freezing the frame changes what we percieve is going on. This first sample shows a Mustang parked on the track but in actual fact it's at full speed. I was using a very high shutter speed testing camera / lenses AF systems for vintage races the following week. I wanted to know which combos could track the cars at full speed & believe it or not even the original Sigma 18-200 did fine.

 

IMG_0868 copy.jpg

 

These are what are considered correct for the venue, background, wheels & tires blurred but the car & driver in focus. Finding the right shutter speed range determines just how much background blur & too slow along with a busy background can result in a shot that draws your eye away from the subject which isn't good. This photo is just on the edge of acceptable due to the corner worker. Your eye isn't 100% sure where the main subject is. The second sample is the desired effect. 

 

INGR2836 copy.jpg

 

INGR2857 copy.jpg

"A skill is developed through constant practice with a passion to improve, not bought."
Respected Contributor
Posts: 1,769
Registered: ‎02-26-2015

Re: Newbie looking for body and lens recommendations to use in motorsports/automotive shoots


cicopo wrote:

TT your sample is good but in general we try to show some motion blur in Motorsports with a few exceptions. 


 

I agree. But, if you had read my post you would have realized that the photo was not posted to illustrate either specific gear or photographic technique. But, was a photo by another photographer, of me and my car participating in autocross, nothing more.

Esteemed Contributor
Posts: 2,150
Registered: ‎11-14-2012

Re: Newbie looking for body and lens recommendations to use in motorsports/automotive shoots

I did read the post but missed that you were the driver rather than the photographer. It happens. 

"A skill is developed through constant practice with a passion to improve, not bought."
Reputable Contributor
Posts: 705
Registered: ‎06-11-2013

Re: Newbie looking for body and lens recommendations to use in motorsports/automotive shoots

[ Edited ]

hoosierdaddy wrote:
Hello all! New to the Canon Community. I've been a hobbyist for a few years with prior experience starting with the A2 and Elan film bodies. In addition to the film bodies I also have a Rebel XT (circa 2003-2005). I took some time away from Canon, and have been relying on my smartphone's (8MP) camera for the last several years. I write an automotive lifestyle blog, travel for motorsports as well as club events, and go any other car event close to me. Looking to get more serious about my product/results, and would like to hear recommendations for a body, and the 1-2 must have lenses as well as any other gear that would be useful for car shoots and motorsports. I still have four lenses: 28-105mm, 85mm, 100mm macro, and 75-300mm ultrasonic lenses from my film days. My thought for the first lens is the 24-70mm II f/2.8 USM for the utility role. Any advice would be most appreciated, and thanks in advance

Assuming they are EF lenses you used on your XT, A2 or Elan, they will work fine on a new camera. No need to buy a new lens unless you really want one.

 

The EF 24-70mm f/2.8L USM is a fine, premium quality lens. It's also fairly pricey, large and heavy. You might also want to consider the EF 24-70mm f/4L IS USM, which is not only lower priced, but also a bit smaller, lighter and it even has image stabilization (which the f/2.8 lens lacks). The f/4 version also has exceptionally close focusing and is able to do very high quality 0.7X magnification or nearly 3/4 life size on its own, so you might not need to carry a macro lens a lot of the time. The f/2.8 lens' maximum magnification is 0.29X or a little less than 1/3 life size. (Either lens can be made closer focusing by adding a macro extension tube.)

 

There's also the EF 24-105mm f/4L IS USM II, which uses a new "Nano USM" focus drive that's not only fast (like most USM lenses), but it's also quiet and smooth (like STM lenses). This makes it useful for video work, as well as still photography.

 

And of these three lenses - 24-70mm f/2.8L II USM, 24-70mm f/4L IS USM or 24-105mm f/4L IS USM II - would be a nice upgrade from your EF 28-150mm.All of these are EF lenses that will work fine on either full frame or APS-C crop sensor camera bodies.

 

But if you get a crop sensor camera (like your XT), you might want to consider some of the excellent EF-S lenses instead. The EF-S 18-135mm IS USM, EF-S 17-55mm f/2.8 IS USM and EF-S 15-85mm IS USM are all very good to excellent and would give you wider angle of view on a crop sensor camera such as T7i, 77D, 80D or 7D Mark II.

 

But if you instead get a full frame camera such as 6D Mark II, 5D Mark IV, 5DS-R or 1DX Mark II, you would need to limit yourself to EF lenses, such as those above (and the lenses you already have).

 

The weakest lens in your current kit is probably your EF 75-300mm, especially if it's the "III" without either USM or IS.... which is a pretty basic, inexpensive "kit" quality lens that has been "bundled" with a lot of the Rebel camera models over the years. There are a number of Canon 70-200mm, 70-300mm and 100-400mm that would be a significant upgrade and particularly a much better performer for action shoots such as motorsports. .

 

EDIT: I read a bit farther and see that you mention a budget of $2500. That being the case, I'd recommend the 80D with EF-S 18-135mm IS USM "kit" lens. While not quite as high performance as 7D Mark II, the 80D actually has higher resolution and uses a newer design sensor, yet is considerably less expensive. It can be bought new in kit with that lens for $1500 right now (after a $300 instant rebate). The same kit is available "refurbished" direct from the Canon USA website for $1130.

 

In comparison, the 7DII in kit with 18-135mm IS "STM" lens (which is a bit slower focusing than Nano USM) costs about $1850 after instant rebate... wiping out most of your budget. The 24MP 80D can shoot stills at a very respectable 8 frames per second, while the 20MP 7DII is a little faster at 10 fps. The 80D has a fairly sophisticated 45-point AF system (all the faster "cross" type, 27 points are "f/8 capable" with select lenses). The 7DII has an even more sophisticated 65-point AF system (all cross type, only one f/8 capable point at the center). 80D has an articulate Touchscreen LCD monitor. The 7DII's LCD monitor is not articulated and is not a Touchscreen. 7DII has dual memory card slots (1 CF, 1 SD), while 80D only has one (SD). 7DII has a bit better sealing and durability.... is rated for 200,000 actuations. Not sure about the 80D, but suspect it's rated for about 100,000 actuations.

 

With between $1000 and $1370 of your budget remaining, look for a Canon EF 100-400mm L IS USM (first version). That's a darned good lens for sports photography and still can be found new for $1300, or for under $1000 used. (The current "Mark II" costs over $2000 new and is rarely seen used.)

 

An alternative would be one or another of  the EF 70-300mm IS USM lenses. The current "II" costs around $500 and has Nano USM similar to the 24-105mm mentioned above. There's also a beefier, premium 70-300mm "L" with top image quality that sells new for $1350 and is pretty widely available used for around $1100 or less.

 

Actually, a 70D would also be fine for your purposes. It's 20MP, same as the 7DI,I and has a 19-point AF system that's similar to the original 7D model's. Now discontinued, 70D are hard to find new, but often available refurbished directly from Canon.... body only for $750 or in kit with EF-S 18-135mm IS STM lens for $850 right now. That would leave more money to put towards your telephoto, other lenses or accessories.

 

I would not recommend any of the full frame cameras, which are more expensive and probably more than you need... plus are limited to full frame capable lenses which tend to be bigger, heavier and more expensive, too. Except for the top of the line 1DX models, FF cameras also aren't as fast shooting as the 80D and 7DII... slower frame rate, slightly slower flash sync, etc.

 

Hope this helps!

 

***********


Alan Myers
San Jose, Calif., USA
"Walk softly and carry a big lens."
GEAR: 5DII, 7DII (x2), 7D(x2) some other cameras, various lenses & accessories
FLICKR & EXPOSUREMANAGER 

Occasional Contributor
Posts: 7
Registered: ‎09-11-2017

Re: Newbie looking for body and lens recommendations to use in motorsports/automotive shoots

Alan,

Thank you indeed for that thorough evaluation and recommendation! It's extremely helpful to me! You've given me a lot to think about. I was/am considering the 7DII, but hadn't thought about the 80. Thank you as well for the analysis of the lenses. I have a local shop in (DC) willing to buy my old Ultrasonic lenses to upgrade to L glass. They have presented me with several used 5DMKiii and 7Dmki's to consider. They also mentioned Sony's mirrorless A7 series.
Honored Contributor
Posts: 5,038
Registered: ‎08-13-2015

Re: Newbie looking for body and lens recommendations to use in motorsports/automotive shoots


hoosierdaddy wrote:
Alan,

Thank you indeed for that thorough evaluation and recommendation! It's extremely helpful to me! You've given me a lot to think about. I was/am considering the 7DII, but hadn't thought about the 80. Thank you as well for the analysis of the lenses. I have a local shop in (DC) willing to buy my old Ultrasonic lenses to upgrade to L glass. They have presented me with several used 5DMKiii and 7Dmki's to consider. They also mentioned Sony's mirrorless A7 series.

Stick to a Canon DSLR.  The most common complaint with Sony, and most every other mirrorless brand, is the short battery life.  Stick with a Canon DSLR, and get a battery grip for extra power, so you shoot 1000 shots on a single charge with a big lens.

 

The 5D3 and 7D2 are both professional grade workhorses.  But some of the newer camera bodies outshine them when it comes to the number of AF points that can focus at f/8, 1 versus 27 points.  The biggest advantage with the 5D3 and 7D2 are body builds, which is a BIG plus in their favor.  But, how much that outweighs a more capable AF sensor is up to you.

Personally, I have used the 7D2 and 80D side by side for a few months, and found that I liked th 80D better.  When shooting action sports, sometimes you need very fast shutter speeds.  Maybe not so much with motorsports, but with most sports you want to use a high shutter speed.  Unless you have a very fast telephoto lens [EXPENSIVE], your aperture will be somewhere between f/4 and f/8, most likely closer to f/8 than f/4.  

A high SS usually necessitates a higher ISO setting, and this is where the 7D2 has left me wanting at times.  The 7D2 is too noisy at ISO 3200, and barely makes the grade at ISO 1600.  The 80D always seemed to be one full ISO stop better than the 7D2 when it came to noise.  I found myself reading for the Canon 100-400mm f/4.5-5.6L more often than the Sigma 150-600mm f/5-6.3, just so that I could use the wider aperture settings at longer focal lengths.

I would go for the full frame 5D3 over the 7D2 in a heartbeat, because of its' lower noise.  Another potential winner could be the 6D2, which has low noise performance comparable to its' predecessor and 27 AF points that work at f/8.

I think that whatever lens you choose, should be considered when you select a camera body.  Pick a lens, then pick a camera body that can get th most out of it.

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"I don't rent software. I use Photoshop CS6, ACR 9.8 and Lightroom 6.8 ."
Occasional Contributor
Posts: 7
Registered: ‎09-11-2017

Re: Newbie looking for body and lens recommendations to use in motorsports/automotive shoots

Wadizzle, I hadn't considered the 80D previously so I'll check into that as well as the 6D2 which I'd just found.  Thanks for the information! 
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