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Respected Contributor
Posts: 1,445
Registered: ‎02-26-2015

Re: Affordable Wide Angle Low Light Lens

[ Edited ]

Metalliogre wrote:

Should I still go with the Rokinon? I don't mind the manual focus at all, I just want beautiful pictures.


I do own the Rokinon 14mm f/2.8 and the Rokinon 8mm f/3.5 Fisheye. I purchased them before Canon released the EF-S 10-18mm IS STM. Before the EF-S 10-18mm IS STM the Rokinons were the lens of choice and I recommended them.

 

However, the Rokinons do have quality control issues. I had to return the first 14mm lens because it was bad. The 8mm has some sort of flaw that shows up in the lower right of every photo when shooting in sunlight that I missed during the return period.

 

The EF-S 10-18mm IS STM deservedly has great reviews. The 4 stop IS more than makes up for the slower aperture, by allowing you to use a slower shutter speed even handheld.  

 

Keep in mind, ebiggs does not regularly shoot with an APS-C crop sensor camera like you own. His experience with lenses on those cameras comes second hand, or from short tryouts with them. 

Respected Contributor
Posts: 1,445
Registered: ‎02-26-2015

Re: Affordable Wide Angle Low Light Lens

[ Edited ]

Waddizzle wrote:

TTMartin wrote:
Yes, it can do low light landscapes. First low light can be corrected for with slower shutter speeds. Between the wide angle and image stabilization with good technique you can handhold full one second exposures.

Also low light can be corrected by taking multiple photos and stacking them.

"Use the Force, Luke."

 

Taking a handheld one second exposure is a pretty neat trick.  Don't try that at home folks.  Most folks will need a tripod for one second exposures, seriously.

 

As for taking multiple shots of long exposures and stacking them, that would test the skills of a Jedi Master.


At 10mm using the 1/focal length x 1.6 rule of thumb for handheld photography gives you 1/16 shutter speed without image stabilization. The EF-S 10-18 IS STM has image stabilization rated at 4 stops, the puts you at a 1 second exposure.

 

Stacking software automatically aligns multiple photos so if normal post processing skills are now consider Jedi Master skills, then I guess that second part would be true. 

Esteemed Contributor
Posts: 3,997
Registered: ‎08-13-2015

Re: Affordable Wide Angle Low Light Lens


TTMartin wrote:

Waddizzle wrote:

TTMartin wrote:

"Use the Force, Luke."

 

Taking a handheld one second exposure is a pretty neat trick.  Don't try that at home folks.  Most folks will need a tripod for one second exposures, seriously.

 

As for taking multiple shots of long exposures and stacking them, that would test the skills of a Jedi Master.


At 10mm using the 1/focal length x 1.6 rule of thumb for handheld photography gives you 1/16 shutter speed without image stabilization. The EF-S 10-18 IS STM has image stabilization rated at 4 stops, the puts you at a 1 second exposure.

 

Stacking software automatically aligns multiple photos so if normal post processing skills are now consider Jedi Master skills, then I guess that second part would be true. 


I think your example at 10mm is closer to the exception than the rule.  Most folks would still need a tripod to take a 1/16 second exposure. 

 

As far as stacking software goes, if you don't have sharp, well focused pictures to start with, then the automatic software will struggle, or even fail, to stack your images because it will be somewhere between uncertain and difficult to find common reference points.  The user would likely have to have manuall select the points of reference between successive images.

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"I don't rent software. I use Photoshop CS6, ACR 9.8 and Lightroom 6.8 ."
Honored Contributor
Posts: 7,126
Registered: ‎12-07-2012

Re: Affordable Wide Angle Low Light Lens

"ebiggs dislikes anything I suggest simply because I'm the one who suggested it."

 

Actually that isn't the reason.  

A lot of Canon stuff. Along with, a lot of other stuff.
Respected Contributor
Posts: 1,445
Registered: ‎02-26-2015

Re: Affordable Wide Angle Low Light Lens


Waddizzle wrote:

TTMartin wrote:

Waddizzle wrote:

TTMartin wrote:

"Use the Force, Luke."

 

Taking a handheld one second exposure is a pretty neat trick.  Don't try that at home folks.  Most folks will need a tripod for one second exposures, seriously.

 

As for taking multiple shots of long exposures and stacking them, that would test the skills of a Jedi Master.


At 10mm using the 1/focal length x 1.6 rule of thumb for handheld photography gives you 1/16 shutter speed without image stabilization. The EF-S 10-18 IS STM has image stabilization rated at 4 stops, the puts you at a 1 second exposure.

 

Stacking software automatically aligns multiple photos so if normal post processing skills are now consider Jedi Master skills, then I guess that second part would be true. 


I think your example at 10mm is closer to the exception than the rule.  Most folks would still need a tripod to take a 1/16 second exposure. 

 

As far as stacking software goes, if you don't have sharp, well focused pictures to start with, then the automatic software will struggle, or even fail, to stack your images because it will be somewhere between uncertain and difficult to find common reference points.  The user would likely have to have manuall select the points of reference between successive images.


Umm, I can't do it now, but, when I was younger shooting 35mm film I could pretty consistently handhold a 50mm non-IS lens at 1/15 of a second. A 10mm lens with 4 stop IS should be no problem for a one second exposure for someone with steady hands and good technique. 

 

Why wouldn't the multiple photos be sharp? That's the point of shooting and stacking multiple photos. Stacking photos lets you shoot at a faster shutter speed and emulate one photo taken at a slower shutter speed. 

Occasional Contributor
Posts: 10
Registered: ‎01-26-2017

Re: Affordable Wide Angle Low Light Lens

You guys are awesome! Haha. I am learning so much. Seriously!
Esteemed Contributor
Posts: 3,997
Registered: ‎08-13-2015

Re: Affordable Wide Angle Low Light Lens

" Umm, I can't do it now, but, when I was younger .... shooting 35mm film I could pretty consistently handhold a 50mm non-IS lens at 1/15 of a second. A 10mm lens with 4 stop IS should be no problem for a one second exposure for someone with steady hands and good technique. 

 

Why wouldn't the multiple photos be sharp? That's the point of shooting and stacking multiple photos. Stacking photos lets you shoot at a faster shutter speed and emulate one photo taken at a slower shutter speed. "

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Most people would still need a tripod.  Thank-you, for proving my point.  I must point out that 1/15 of second is an entirely different scenario from your original claim of one full second.

 

If you cannot do it yourself, why do you insist that "a 10mm lens with 4 stop IS should be no problem for a one exposure"?  In the same breath you admit that you cannot do it, and then turn right around and claim that most anyone should be able to do it.

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"I don't rent software. I use Photoshop CS6, ACR 9.8 and Lightroom 6.8 ."
Honored Contributor
Posts: 7,126
Registered: ‎12-07-2012

Re: Affordable Wide Angle Low Light Lens

"If you cannot do it yourself, why do you insist that "a 10mm lens with 4 stop IS should be no problem for a one exposure"?  In the same breath you admit that you cannot do it, and then turn right around and claim that most anyone should be able to do it."

 

That is because he is a keyboard jock and not a doer.  He is good at reading reviews and such.  Grain of salt!

A lot of Canon stuff. Along with, a lot of other stuff.
Respected Contributor
Posts: 1,445
Registered: ‎02-26-2015

Re: Affordable Wide Angle Low Light Lens

[ Edited ]

Waddizzle wrote:

" Umm, I can't do it now, but, when I was younger .... shooting 35mm film I could pretty consistently handhold a 50mm non-IS lens at 1/15 of a second. A 10mm lens with 4 stop IS should be no problem for a one second exposure for someone with steady hands and good technique. 

 

Why wouldn't the multiple photos be sharp? That's the point of shooting and stacking multiple photos. Stacking photos lets you shoot at a faster shutter speed and emulate one photo taken at a slower shutter speed. "

----------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Most people would still need a tripod.  Thank-you, for proving my point.  I must point out that 1/15 of second is an entirely different scenario from your original claim of one full second.

 

If you cannot do it yourself, why do you insist that "a 10mm lens with 4 stop IS should be no problem for a one exposure"?  In the same breath you admit that you cannot do it, and then turn right around and claim that most anyone should be able to do it.


1/15 of a second with a non-IS 50mm lens, is an entirely different scenario that 1 second with 10mm lens with 4 stop image stabilization. In that theoretically 1/15 of a second with a non-IS 50mm lens should be 4 times harder to do than 1 second with 10mm lens with 4 stop image stabilization.

I didn't prove your point at all. 
Again, normal handheld rule of thumb with a lens is 1/focal length (full frame) and 1/focal lenght x 1.6 (APS-C).
So an average person using proper technique should be able to handhold a 10mm lens on an APS-C camera at 1/16 of a second WITHOUT image stabilization. 
The EF-S 10-18 IS STM has image stabilization rated at 4 stops.
No stops 1/16
One stop 1/8
Two stops 1/4
Three stops 1/2
Four stops 1/1 or 1 second expsure. 
Normal rule of thumb for handheld. No tripod or Jedi skills required. 
Respected Contributor
Posts: 1,445
Registered: ‎02-26-2015

Re: Affordable Wide Angle Low Light Lens

From one popular camera reviewer regarding the EF-S 10-18 IS STM lens.

 

 

'Image Stabilization works great. Presuming you know how to shoot a rifle and thus shoot a camera properly at slow speeds, I get perfectly sharp shots most of the time at 1/4 second, usually get pretty sharp shots at 1/2, and even at 1 second get a sharp shot every few frames.

 

I use a simple technique when I'm on the edge: just shoot several frames, and one is usually much sharper than the others. Use that, and delete the rest.'

 

From another well respected lens reviewer regarding the EF-S 10-18 IS STM lens.

 

'Under ideal conditions (indoors, standing on a solid floor) and shooting completely freehand, at 10mm, I obtained a decent sharp image percentage down to about .4 to .5 seconds for about 3 stops of assistance. I had enough sharp images at .8 seconds that it would be worth trying for a shot at even this long exposure time if conditions were right (wind, unstable footing and other influences decrease needed exposure times).

Somewhat unusual is that I was able to handhold this lens at its longest focal length at exposure times at least as long as I could handhold it at its widest focal lengths. At 18mm, I had a decent sharp image percentage down to .8 seconds (just under 4 stops) with a few sharp images remaining at exposures as long as 1 second. The keeper rate dropped rapidly at longer exposure times, but .8 seconds is over 4 stops of assistance for me.'

 

Yep, one second exposures without a tripod. 

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