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Honored Contributor
Posts: 7,928
Registered: ‎12-07-2012

Re: I Want Sharp Image (New Camera or Macro Lens)

"... if you can't get sharp and clear picture with a kit lens, you won't get sharp and clear pictures with a better lens, either."

 

OK, let's think about that statement.  All lenses and cameras have their limits we all agree.  But the limits of the 100mm f2.8 macro is going to be far better than any kit lens.  Not being able to get sharp photos with the kit lens could be the lens.  Even in a beginner novice's hands the 100mil is going to fair better.       A kit lens? I don't suppose you rely on the 18-55mm kit lens for your own photography?  To each his own, whatever works.

A lot of Canon stuff. Along with, a lot of other stuff.
Respected Contributor
Posts: 1,769
Registered: ‎02-26-2015

Re: I Want Sharp Image (New Camera or Macro Lens)


diverhank wrote:

ebiggs1 wrote:

"Personally I don't even think you need a new lens to get clear and sharp pictures."

 

You don't think the ef 100mm f2.8 macro can do better than a kit zoom?  Smiley Surprised  Just curious!


I didn't say that.  In capable hands, a macro lens will be infinitely better but if you can't get sharp and clear picture with a kit lens, you won't get sharp and clear pictures with a better lens, either.  There is no magic in a macro lens that will get you sharp picture without doing the right thing.  That is my point.


There are definately people here who think you can buy your way to good photography, and you can't. If you can't get a sharp photo with the EF-S 18-55 IS STM lens, getting a new lens won't help.

 

Here's an example from Flikr of what the EF-S 18-55 IS STM lens (with extension tubes) is capable of.

14904234150_ff34fdc3dc_o.jpg

Image by Barish Photography

EXIF Data:
==========
Camera : Canon EOS 70D DSLR
Lens : Canon EF-S 18-55 mm f/3.5-5.6 IS STM (With Extension Tubes)
ISO : 800
Aperture : 16 mm
Focal Length : 55 mm
Exposure : 1/250 Sec
Flash : Did not fire
Date : 12 Aug 2014
Color Space : sRGB
Exposure Bias : 0 EV

 
Respected Contributor
Posts: 1,769
Registered: ‎02-26-2015

Re: I Want Sharp Image (New Camera or Macro Lens)


ebiggs1 wrote:

"... if you can't get sharp and clear picture with a kit lens, you won't get sharp and clear pictures with a better lens, either."

 

OK, let's think about that statement.  All lenses and cameras have their limits we all agree.  But the limits of the 100mm f2.8 macro is going to be far better than any kit lens.  Not being able to get sharp photos with the kit lens could be the lens.  Even in a beginner novice's hands the 100mil is going to fair better.       A kit lens? I don't suppose you rely on the 18-55mm kit lens for your own photography?  To each his own, whatever works.


Here's those darn MTFs contradicting what you are saying AGAIN. You really should learn how to read them!

 

EF 100mm f/2.8 Macro USM

100mm mtf

 

STM kit MTF

 

 

Honored Contributor
Posts: 7,928
Registered: ‎12-07-2012

Re: I Want Sharp Image (New Camera or Macro Lens)

You know you like to read. I suspect it's all you do but whatever you aren't reading and understanding. You glean what you want to.

I'll attempt to help you. The MTF chart doesn't always tell the entire story. Most MTF graphs are calculated rather than measured anyway. A while ago Photodo actually measured some MTF graphs. It showed that some lenses measured were almost true to the graphs, while others were way off. MTF graphs and histograms can give you helpful information, but there is much more to a lens than the MTF. Don't pay too much attention to MTF charts unless you shoot MTF charts for a living. How the lens performs, for it's owner in the field, is what really counts.

 

Tip:  It's much more fun the go out and shoot pictures than to sit in front of your computer and collect MTF charts.  Give it a go sometime.  You'll enjoy it.

A lot of Canon stuff. Along with, a lot of other stuff.
Esteemed Contributor
Posts: 2,996
Registered: ‎06-11-2013

Re: I Want Sharp Image (New Camera or Macro Lens)

I'ts difficult to compare dissimilar lenses based on MTF curves.  The charts alone are actually showin different data.

 

The first thing to note is that when comparing a full-frame lens to a crop-frame lens, the full-frame lens projects a larger image circle... so it's MTF chart hoirzontal axis represents a radius of about 22mm.  Meanwhile the crop-frame lens only has a horizontal axis that measures out to about 13.5.  That's nearly 10mm shorter.  

 

When using a full-frame lens on a crop-frame body, you'd really only want to compare the first 13mm worth of the horizontal axis. 

 

Secondly, Canon's MTF curves have lines of different color, boldness, and pattern to present the differnt types of tests.

 

But of note here is the use of the "black" lines vs. the "blue" lines.  The "black" lines represent the performance of the lens tested at whatever it's "widest" aperture is.  

 

In the case of the 100mm f/2.8 macro, that's f/2.8

In the case of the variable focal ratio 18-55mm f/4-5.6 lens, that's actually f/5.6.

 

To try to provide a different analysis, Canon's "blue" lines represent testing at f/8 ... the blue lines for both lens types are done at f/8.  

 

When you compare those, you can see the EF-S lens is taking a hit beyond the 10mm point... where the macro is still performing fairly well.

 

This still doesn't work around the notion that one is a 55mm lens and the other is a 100mm lens (so that changes the angle of view and camera position.)  Again... comparing dissimilar lenses via an MTF chart is something that sould be done with caution.

 

Tim Campbell
5D III, 5D IV, 60Da
Respected Contributor
Posts: 1,769
Registered: ‎02-26-2015

Re: I Want Sharp Image (New Camera or Macro Lens)

[ Edited ]

TCampbell wrote:

 

 

To try to provide a different analysis, Canon's "blue" lines represent testing at f/8 ... the blue lines for both lens types are done at f/8.  

 

When you compare those, you can see the EF-S lens is taking a hit beyond the 10mm point... where the macro is still performing fairly well.

 

This still doesn't work around the notion that one is a 55mm lens and the other is a 100mm lens (so that changes the angle of view and camera position.)  Again... comparing dissimilar lenses via an MTF chart is something that sould be done with caution.

 


Yet, the hit the STM lens takes beyond 10mm still performs as well as the macro, since it actually started with better image quality than the 100mm Macro prior to that point.

 

Also the EF-S 18-55mm IS STM is not a Macro lens so its image plane isn't as flat, which is the reason for the fall off. That's a plus for a true Macro lens and a negative for the kit lens.

 

But, the days of kit lenses are junk throw them away they aren't worth using are long gone.

 

Canon's entire STM lens line has image quality that matches that of older L lenses. And Canon's newer L IS II lenses are all unsurpassed in there image quality.

 

So DiverHank's point that if you can't get sharp photos with an STM kit lens is certainly valid. And throwing money at it the problem which isn't a gear issue and buying new gear isn't going to help get better photos.

 

edit: the tests where some MTFs weren't as accurate as others related to comparing MTFs from different manufacturers. Comparing Canon MTFs to Canon MTFs do tell the story. And yes you do know how to read them including the difference in image circle size.

Esteemed Contributor
Posts: 4,254
Registered: ‎11-13-2012

Re: I Want Sharp Image (New Camera or Macro Lens)

Just so we don't loose sight of the OP's issue, here is the question and examples from the other post she made.

 

http://community.usa.canon.com/t5/EOS-Rebel/Canon-750D-Noise-Product-Photography/m-p/207342#U207342

 

 

John Hoffman
Conway, NH

1D X, Rebel T5i, Many lenses, Pixma PRO-100, MX472
Super Contributor
Posts: 175
Registered: ‎01-31-2017

Re: I Want Sharp Image (New Camera or Macro Lens)

[ Edited ]

margzxero wrote:

I have canon 750D, I want a nice sharp/clear image of my jewelry, do I need to invest in macro or buy new camera.

 

Thanks


I think you need to practice more. 

 

I am just an amateur and a relative beginner at that. So feel free to disregard everything I'm about t o say.

 

But if you are unable to take a "nice sharp/clear image" of your jewelery, could it be that you don't have the technique to be able to do so? Do you have the proper lighting equipment, expertise and composition skills to do what you are trying to do?

 

Are you shooting in aperature priority mode? Have you set your aperature to f11 or smaller, and still can't get a sharp image? Are your hands shaky, or are you moving around? What is your shutter speed?

 

You can spend thousands on high-end gear and lenses, but if you lack the knowledge and skill to take a clear photo, why would you pour thousands of dollars down the drain on equipment that is beyond your ability to use?

 

 

Super Contributor
Posts: 175
Registered: ‎01-31-2017

Re: I Want Sharp Image (New Camera or Macro Lens)


margzxero wrote:

I am a freelance product photographer but shooting a jewellery is very hard. I am planning to buy a Canon 5D or better invest in macro lens?


Dude, no offense, but I can't help but wonder what your payment is on this "assignment."

 

If your "payment" is in the form of a few kind words on the jewelers' site and a publication "credit" to boost your freelance "career," I would think twice about running out to buy a 5D and L glass. 

 

Maybe invest a bit of money in some books and some photography classes?

Reputable Contributor
Posts: 810
Registered: ‎02-06-2013

Re: I Want Sharp Image (New Camera or Macro Lens)


jrhoffman75 wrote:

Just so we don't loose sight of the OP's issue, here is the question and examples from the other post she made.

 

http://community.usa.canon.com/t5/EOS-Rebel/Canon-750D-Noise-Product-Photography/m-p/207342#U207342

 

 


Thanks for posting this...she does a better job than I had envisioned but still the fundamental problems are still there...1. lighting is not that great, 2. focus was off - the focus was on the metal behind the diamonds and not on the diamonds and 3. f/22 is not as sharp due to diffraction.

 

Perhaps with improved techniques, she may benefit more with a better lens.

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