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Sunrise/Sunset and White Balance

RalphHightower
Apprentice
I have a question about overriding Automatic White Balance when photographing sunrises and sunsets. A few days ago, I got my first DSLR, an EOS 5D Mk III. I know the ISO triangle after shooting film on my Canon A-1 that I bought 34 years ago, which still works). However, this white balance thing is a fourth dimension. Films are balanced for daylight and the ISO is also dictated. For photographing a sunrise or sunset, to me, it makes sense to set the white balance to 5200 Kelvin (daylight). I got one response from a camera club member who said his photos were all in the 5000 range. Others have said "Shoot in RAW and fix it in post processing". The second response of "Fix it later" just doesn't ring my bell. What about getting it right the first time? Should I set white balance to daylight or some other setting? I can always experiment with changing white balance; after all, I'm not wasting film. Below are a series of sunrises that I took using Kodak Portra 400, -2/3 stop, on my Canon A-1. http://www.flickr.com/photos/ralphhightower/sets/72157633079358301/ Thanks, Ralph
2 ACCEPTED SOLUTIONS

Kaweeka
Contributor
Bruce Dorn says 5200 from dawn to 9am and 3pm to sunset. He takes nice pictures!

View solution in original post

amfoto1
Authority

It might be helpful to just think of the digital camera's white balance capabilities as a built-in and very complete set of color conversion and color correction filters, such as we used to use with film. Now, for your convenience, all those filters are right there, inside the camera.... much easier to carry around and use!

 

If shooting during Golden Hours, the camera's Automatic White Balance (AWB) can tend to overcorrect and remove some of the lovely golden nature of the light. One solution is as others have recommended, to shoot RAW and make your adjustments later. This is no different from making the adjustments in-camera, at the time of exposure, and can make for much greater control and precision. It's not really a "fix it later" thing... It is more a matter of doing fine-tuning and optimizing the image (more on this below). RAW simply retains all the data from the original capture and is a good thing to use, anyway. 

 

All digital cameras essentially capture a TIFF image file with a lot of proprietary data attached and an embedded "preview/review" JPEG... that's what the RAW file is. If you make JPEGs in-camera, a lot of data is thrown away, following the directions laid out by the settings in the camera. If, instead, you save the entire RAW file, you can change those directions later in post-processing... or just make a JPEG from the image "as shot", using the exact same set of instructions as were set in the camera at the time of exposure. One of the beauties of RAW is that so long as you store the original image file, you can always go back and re-process it another way, if you wish. This is particularly helpful when new to digital and uncertain about your settings. Something you might want to do is shoot RAW+JPEG initially. That way you have both the full data stored, along with the potential to make changes if you wish, plus the JPEG produced according to your camera settings. The JPEG can serve as a post-processing learning tool, using it as a point of comparison with your own RAW file conversions.... and as feedback about your camera settings. (Don't trust the image display on the camera's LCD screen... it's not calibrated and is too subject to ambient light variations. The histogram display is generally more informative, but even that is subject to the camera's settings, since it's done from the embedded JPEG and not directly from the full RAW file.) 

 

But, I agree, it's also good to "get it right the first time". Or at least come as close as possible.

 

Pacific sunset

 

The most ideal way to do that would be to set a Custom White Balance for every shot. Use a standardized target, bathed in the same light as your subject/scene, and take a shot of it... then tell the camera to use that as reference. However, it's just not practical to do that.

 

Nor is it a good idea to set one particular color temp and use it for everything (i know photogs who do that and have had to work with their images.... it makes for a lot of extra work!)

 

Thus there are all the "presets" you can choose among, looking for one that's most appropriate for your particular situation... And there is AWB, which allows the camera to try to choose for you. Outdoors in daylight I've found Canon AWB to be pretty darned good. Shots in the shade can be a little overly cool. And indoor shots with tungsten or other artifical light are when a Custom WB is most likely to be needed.... especially with weird, uncalibrated lighting such as sodium vapor and mercury vapor lamps.

 

To set an accurate Custom WB, get yourself a gray card or similar (I use Lastolite EZ Balance targets, which are sort of like a foldable/flexible gray card). This also can be helpful arriving at an accurately metered exposures. Something else I use in certain circumstances are Warm Cards... these have slight tints that "fool" the camera into slightly tinting the image.... a light blue/cyan target will cause the camera to render a slightly warm color balance. Warm Cards would be particularly helpful shooting during the Golden Hours, if wanting to retain some of the warmth of the light at those times of day.  It's more accurate doing this than simply manually setting a particular color temp, although that's possible too. 

 

And, yes, you should spend some time getting to know how your camera handles color. Each model can be a bit different. You'd do well to shoot a bunch of test shots with AWB, Custom WB and, if you wish, the various presets... to see how they perform.

 

Of course, you don't always have time to think about or make settings... sometimes to catch fleeting light you have to run to catch an image quickly, shoot RAW and "fix it later" in post-processing!

 

Pigeon Point sunset panorama

 

If you haven't already done so, you might want to calibrate your computer monitor. As concerned as you are about rendering accurate color or manipulating it the way you want it, in case you are unaware of it... your computer monitor is lying to you. All computer monitors are different, none are really very accurate and virtually all are way too bright. If you make prints using an uncalibrated monitor, you will usually find them coming out too dark. This is because an overly bright monitor causes you to adjust the image too dark. If you don't already have them, you might want to get computer calibration software and hardware and use them regularly (about once every month or two, usually... monitors change over time and with use). 

 

The way the calibration device works is by first running a test on your particular monitor, and then providing a profile that the computer will use when rendering images on the display. Some of the more sophisticated calibration suites can also be used to develop printing profiles (unique for each ink/paper/printer combination), projectors and other viewing devices. (I use a Datacolor Spyder, one of several different calibration devices/softwares available).

 

Hope this helps!

 

***********
Alan Myers

San Jose, Calif., USA
"Walk softly and carry a big lens."
GEAR: 5DII, 7D(x2), 50D(x3), some other cameras, various lenses & accessories
FLICKR & PRINTROOM 

 





View solution in original post

4 REPLIES 4

Kaweeka
Contributor
Bruce Dorn says 5200 from dawn to 9am and 3pm to sunset. He takes nice pictures!

ebiggs1
Legend
Legend

 "Shoot in RAW and fix it in post processing."   This is the correct answer but I understand you may not want to go the extra step here. Most don't!

 

The next best answer is "bracket" and "trial and error".  Go shoot sunsets for yourself.

 

But the quick answer is leave it set to daylight. Because, I guess, you want it to look reddish as it does to your eyes.

Didn't you shoot sunsets with your A1, a great camera BTW, with daylight film?

 

BTW, your flickr photos are not daylight but look cloudy or overcast to me!

EB
EOS 1DX and 1D Mk IV and less lenses then before!

amfoto1
Authority

It might be helpful to just think of the digital camera's white balance capabilities as a built-in and very complete set of color conversion and color correction filters, such as we used to use with film. Now, for your convenience, all those filters are right there, inside the camera.... much easier to carry around and use!

 

If shooting during Golden Hours, the camera's Automatic White Balance (AWB) can tend to overcorrect and remove some of the lovely golden nature of the light. One solution is as others have recommended, to shoot RAW and make your adjustments later. This is no different from making the adjustments in-camera, at the time of exposure, and can make for much greater control and precision. It's not really a "fix it later" thing... It is more a matter of doing fine-tuning and optimizing the image (more on this below). RAW simply retains all the data from the original capture and is a good thing to use, anyway. 

 

All digital cameras essentially capture a TIFF image file with a lot of proprietary data attached and an embedded "preview/review" JPEG... that's what the RAW file is. If you make JPEGs in-camera, a lot of data is thrown away, following the directions laid out by the settings in the camera. If, instead, you save the entire RAW file, you can change those directions later in post-processing... or just make a JPEG from the image "as shot", using the exact same set of instructions as were set in the camera at the time of exposure. One of the beauties of RAW is that so long as you store the original image file, you can always go back and re-process it another way, if you wish. This is particularly helpful when new to digital and uncertain about your settings. Something you might want to do is shoot RAW+JPEG initially. That way you have both the full data stored, along with the potential to make changes if you wish, plus the JPEG produced according to your camera settings. The JPEG can serve as a post-processing learning tool, using it as a point of comparison with your own RAW file conversions.... and as feedback about your camera settings. (Don't trust the image display on the camera's LCD screen... it's not calibrated and is too subject to ambient light variations. The histogram display is generally more informative, but even that is subject to the camera's settings, since it's done from the embedded JPEG and not directly from the full RAW file.) 

 

But, I agree, it's also good to "get it right the first time". Or at least come as close as possible.

 

Pacific sunset

 

The most ideal way to do that would be to set a Custom White Balance for every shot. Use a standardized target, bathed in the same light as your subject/scene, and take a shot of it... then tell the camera to use that as reference. However, it's just not practical to do that.

 

Nor is it a good idea to set one particular color temp and use it for everything (i know photogs who do that and have had to work with their images.... it makes for a lot of extra work!)

 

Thus there are all the "presets" you can choose among, looking for one that's most appropriate for your particular situation... And there is AWB, which allows the camera to try to choose for you. Outdoors in daylight I've found Canon AWB to be pretty darned good. Shots in the shade can be a little overly cool. And indoor shots with tungsten or other artifical light are when a Custom WB is most likely to be needed.... especially with weird, uncalibrated lighting such as sodium vapor and mercury vapor lamps.

 

To set an accurate Custom WB, get yourself a gray card or similar (I use Lastolite EZ Balance targets, which are sort of like a foldable/flexible gray card). This also can be helpful arriving at an accurately metered exposures. Something else I use in certain circumstances are Warm Cards... these have slight tints that "fool" the camera into slightly tinting the image.... a light blue/cyan target will cause the camera to render a slightly warm color balance. Warm Cards would be particularly helpful shooting during the Golden Hours, if wanting to retain some of the warmth of the light at those times of day.  It's more accurate doing this than simply manually setting a particular color temp, although that's possible too. 

 

And, yes, you should spend some time getting to know how your camera handles color. Each model can be a bit different. You'd do well to shoot a bunch of test shots with AWB, Custom WB and, if you wish, the various presets... to see how they perform.

 

Of course, you don't always have time to think about or make settings... sometimes to catch fleeting light you have to run to catch an image quickly, shoot RAW and "fix it later" in post-processing!

 

Pigeon Point sunset panorama

 

If you haven't already done so, you might want to calibrate your computer monitor. As concerned as you are about rendering accurate color or manipulating it the way you want it, in case you are unaware of it... your computer monitor is lying to you. All computer monitors are different, none are really very accurate and virtually all are way too bright. If you make prints using an uncalibrated monitor, you will usually find them coming out too dark. This is because an overly bright monitor causes you to adjust the image too dark. If you don't already have them, you might want to get computer calibration software and hardware and use them regularly (about once every month or two, usually... monitors change over time and with use). 

 

The way the calibration device works is by first running a test on your particular monitor, and then providing a profile that the computer will use when rendering images on the display. Some of the more sophisticated calibration suites can also be used to develop printing profiles (unique for each ink/paper/printer combination), projectors and other viewing devices. (I use a Datacolor Spyder, one of several different calibration devices/softwares available).

 

Hope this helps!

 

***********
Alan Myers

San Jose, Calif., USA
"Walk softly and carry a big lens."
GEAR: 5DII, 7D(x2), 50D(x3), some other cameras, various lenses & accessories
FLICKR & PRINTROOM 

 





Thanks for the information. I'll experiment with white balance and also use auto white balance. After all, I'm not wasting film for experiments; but that I did experiment with B&W film in 2012 using B&W contrast filters.

 

I will add color calibration to my monitor.

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