Another Soft Image w/5DIII Question

[fourty4mag]

Hello all!

I've looked through the forum and didn't see a post that seemed to apply so I'm asking my question.  Please forgive me if I missed an answer somewhere ;o)

I have a 5DIII that is producing uniformly soft images.  I can tell where it's focused, but the best focus in the image is still soft.  It's very obvious when I look at them in LR, particularly when comparing to images from my 7D.  I'm not new to photography or Canons (my first Canon was a TLb, and I still have my F1) so I've tried all the usual suspects.

1. This happens with all lenses (primes and zooms: 100 mm 2.8 L, 14 mm 2.8 L, 20-70 mm 2.8 L)
2. It happens hand held with IS on
3. It happens mounted on a tripod, using mirror lock up and the IR remote (IS off)
4. I'm running low ISOs
5. Using middle of the lens f/stops (not just wide open)
6. Natural light or fill flash
7. With and without filters

I've calibrated the lenses.

I seriously doubt the hardware is to blame; more likely a short between the headsets (operator error).  I'm trying to avoid resetting to factory defaults.  Is there a camera setting that could be causing the problem? 

That said, I saw a reference to an "AA" filter on the MkIII.  If mine has one, could that be the issue?

[Waddizzle]

If by saying that you have "calibrated the lenses," you mean that you have set AFMA on them, then why are your images soft?  If all of your images are soft, either all back focusing or all front focusing, then your camera could be off.  

Also, your AFMA adjustments could be flawed in some way.  It is hardly a one step process, and it is easier to introduce error than it is to get it spot on.  It takes dozens of test shots, and then averaging them.  They should all trend the same way.

Maybe you do need to write down your AFMA settings, and just go ahead and clear them out.  Canon can do a clean and check on the camera, and they should check your camera's AFMA is where it should be, if you specifically ask them.

[fourty4mag]

Yes, I was referring to setting AFMA for each lens, using the LensAlign system.  Hardly a one step process, as you said.

"...then why are your images soft?"  That's the question.  If it was just a matter of the lens focusing in front or behind, there would be a plane that is in focus (assuming the subject matter has enough depth).  I should still be able to see where it focused; it shouldn't make the entire image soft.  Also, I'm exposing near the middle of the aperture range, say f/5.6 or f/8, and the subject isn't close, so the effects of a slight error in the focus distance should be neglegible.

According to the manual, Picture Style can effect the sharpness. I'm on "Standard" which as far as I can tell shouldn't do this.

It makes me wonder if the sensor has some sort of film on it, though it looks very clean.  I'm very contamination conscious when changing lenses.

Sounds like resetting is the next thing to try, after taking some "before" shots for a direct apples-to-apples comparison.

[ebiggs1]

You sound like you understand AFMA.  Most people don't and they reside right here on the forum. AFMA does nothing to make a lens sharper or increase its IQ.  It simply moves the pin point focus point.  Something in the picture should be in focus all the time.  Just what, is the question.

I doubt it is the AA filter although it does introduce some softening. It needs to be eliminated on Canon bodies, IMHO. The AA filter (anti-aliasing filter), component in front of the imaging sensor, is intended to eliminate moire pattern and aliasing.  Removing it can lead to sharper images and more captured fine detail. Pretty much every image post processing software now includes moire removal tools making it quite simple to remove any AA artifacts like moire. Another good reason to always shoot in Raw format!  The Nikon D810 and D850 do not have an AA filter along with some other brands. They can make some incredible sharp images.  Too, bad they can't use Canon L lenses !  That said I doubt the AA filter is your issue.

Picture style can be a factor. It probably is in fact.  I strongly suggest you do a factory reset and clear all settings.  Actually you have to as it is the only way to know if it is you or the camera.  You really have no choice or you can continue to wonder what's up.

The last suggestion form what you have stated in your original post is to send it to Canon for a C&C.

[Waddizzle]

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@ebiggs1 wrote:

Picture style can be a factor. It probably is in fact.  I strongly suggest you do a factory reset and clear all settings.  Actually you have to as it is the only way to know if it is you or the camera.  You really have no choice or you can continue to wonder what's up.

The last suggestion form what you have stated in your original post is to send it to Canon for a C&C.

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Doing a "Reset to Factory Defaults" doesn't to clear out AFMA settings, nor custom button programming.  You must go into those particular sub-menus in order to reset them.  They each have their own "reset to factory default" menu selection.

[ebiggs1]

"Reset to Factory Defaults" doesn't to clear out AFMA settings, nor custom button programming."

That was not the goal.  The object is to remove any settings the OP may have put in.  Such as a custom setting to one of the picture styles.  I am assuming the OP got the AFMA adjustments correct.  He seems to think so at least that is the impression I got.

[TCampbell]

Something here isn't adding up.

You can think of your camera "sensor" as a "movie screen" and you can think of your lens(es) as a "movie projector".  If the image on the screen isn't sharp, it's probably not the screen... it's almost certainly the projector.  You'd need to have something on the sensor to blur it (you haven't smeared any vasoline on your sensor have you?  I didn't think so.)

Usually when someone complains that the camera is taking soft images, their description of how they are arriving at this conclusion indicates they've left an awful lot to chance (hand-held camera / no tripod, not necessarily an adequate shutter speed, not using a focus target -- just using rando shots, etc.)    But it sounds like you've made many efforts to isolate possible causes (you didn't mention if you were using "One Shot" focus vs. "AI Servo" or which focus mode (e.g. spot, single point, expanded, surround, etc.) and if you're using the middle point vs. some other point.  I suppose that's something else to check just to be thorough.

But if these same lenses product a sharp result on a different "screen", then it does suggest an issue with the camera and it makes me wonder if the something else is wrong and there can be several other reasons.

For example... light is bounced down into the sensor via a small secondary mirror.  The reflex mirror bounces light "up" to the pentaprism... but the center of that mirror is semi-transparent and there's a smaller secondary mirror hiding behind it which bounces light "down" to the AF sensors which reside on the floor of the camera.  If, for example, that secondary mirror isn't coming to rest in the correct position, it could skew focus (I've never heard of this actually happening... but I suppose it *could* happen).  Another possibility is that the main image sensor needs to be shimmed.  The sensor is shimmed at the factor to make sure it's perpendicular to the optical axis and not fractionally tilted.  If it were fractionally tilted then a camera taking a photo of a "flat" target (such as a wall) might notice focus is better on one side of the image vs. the other side.

Have you tried switching to live-view mode (which uses a completely different focus system) to see if the results are different?

Also, try testing against a large "flat" target that occupies the entire image (such as a brick wall) are you able to detect that focus is better on one side than on the other?  (which could indicate that the sensor needs to be shimmed -- that would requrie factory service.)

One other thing... you mentioned you used a LensAlign... when you inspect those images... the angled scale is used to determine which point along the scale is sharpest.  Is it, in fact, sharpest at the focus target (the zero position) but that position is soft too... or is it sharpest elsewhere (suggesting the camera is ignoring the focus adjustment you've dialed in.)?

[ebiggs1]

Quote,...

1. This happens with all lenses (primes and zooms: 100 mm 2.8 L, 14 mm 2.8 L, 20-70 mm 2.8 L)

That sorta rules out, "If the image on the screen isn't sharp, it's probably not the screen."

In this case it most likely is the 'screen'!    "... it does suggest an issue with the camera..."

Correct.  

[Waddizzle]

"I seriously doubt the hardware is to blame; more likely a short between the headsets (operator error).  I'm trying to avoid resetting to factory defaults.  Is there a camera setting that could be causing the problem?"  

Yes, there is a camera setting or two that could cause your issues. 

Bad AFMA settings, and improperly set BBF function.  It is time to write down your settings, assuming the camera cannot save them to the card, and reset the camera, including the AFMA and custom button programming, back to factory defaults.  Don't forget to document any custom shooting modes, too.

While I don't really think those are the culprits, because they seem too obvious, you still need to rule them out.  It is time to start eliminating possibilities, instead of speculating as to what the problem could be.