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Esteemed Contributor
Posts: 3,014
Registered: ‎06-25-2014

Re: Accidental Lens Release


schmegg wrote:

Waddizzle wrote:

ebiggs1 wrote:

I guess if it has never happened to you, it is hard to see how it could.  But one thing for sure it didn't happen the way some are saying it did.  There has to be some input, wanted or unwanted, from the user.  

 

Plus I don't want Canon to do anything that makes it more difficult to change lenses.  I think most/all working pros would feel the same way.  The difference between the pro needs and the hobbyist needs I guess.


Actually, it has happened to me once before.  I was sitting, and the lens dropped into my lap.  Instead of assuming the camera was faulty, I assumed that I must have unknowingly pressed the release button.  Lenses do not release by themselves.  Lesson learned! 

 

Never crossed my mind to blame the camera.


Well, I'm not saying the camera is faulty. I'm saying the design could be better. BIG difference.

 

I've certainly treated the unfortunate incident as a lesson and now constantly check that my lens has not somehow become semi-detacted without my purposful input (which is what happened - and was the point of my contribution to this thread).

 

You may say it's the users fault - that's your opinion. I'm not looking to throw blame here, nor am I looking to defend in a fanboy like manner.

 

Seems to me that, after owning and using Canon bodies and lenses over three decades, and NEVER encountering this issue, it would be safe to assume that lenses do NOT get released without the EXPRESS and DELIBERATE action of the user. 

 

But, unfortunately, the design of the newer 5D's is such that it CAN happen accidentally. And this thread shows that to be true. Even you have had it happen!

 

Hopefully Canon might see past those who simply throw the blame at the user and take this into consideration in their coming designs - which is the real point of even mentioning this issue to begin with.


I don't disagree with any of what you say. And since I rarely change lenses during a shoot, I don't share Ernie's resistance to a change in the release mechanism. But what does bother me is that we still don't really know what's happening, e.g. whether it's a hardware problem, user error, or both. And until the cause of the problem has been clearly identified, the risk is that an attempted fix may not solve the problem. Or that it will solve the problem, but at a cost that riles users like Ernie who need, or think they need, to change lenses quickly.

Bob
Boston, Massachusetts USA
Esteemed Contributor
Posts: 4,165
Registered: ‎08-13-2015

Re: Accidental Lens Release

[ Edited ]

"But, unfortunately, the design of the newer 5D's is such that it CAN happen accidentially. And this thread shows that to be true. Even you have had it happen!"

 

Yes, it has happend to me.  Newbie error. 

 

I used to shoot film throughout the 1980s, but it was an expensive hobby.  It was cheaper to buy disposable cameras, and get more consistent focus.  I knew about DSLR cameras, but it didn't really click in my head that the expense of developing film was a thing of the past. 

 

I had just bought a camera and was feeling it out, trying out the two different lenses that came in kit.  Good thing I was reclining in the Lay-Z-Boy, and taking pictures of my toes.  That's why the lens landed in my lap. 

 

Another newbie error.  I was taking pictures of the Moon, and grabbed the camera with both hands to reposition it.  I was using a large lens with a tripod foot.  I had repositioned the camera several times over the course of time.  My tripod's ball head wasn't very good with a heavy, off balanced load, pointing upwards, past 60 degrees.  The ball head wanted to roll into the portrait notch because it lacked a friction adjustment.

 

I rolled the head into the portrait mode notch, loosened the tripod foot and rotated the camera back to landscape, when the camera detached from the lens, as I was holding it with two hands.  Obviously, when I gripped the camera on either side, I must have hit the release button.  Seeing how i had been doing that for half an hour, there's no telling when I hit the release button.

 

"But, unfortunately, the design of the newer 5D's is such that it CAN happen accidentially."

 

Wrong.  This has nothing to do with the design of newer cameras.  The location and design of the release button has remained pretty much unchanged for years.  Yes, it can happen.  But, it happens through pure carelessness, IMHO.

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"I don't rent software. I use Photoshop CS6, ACR 9.8 and Lightroom 6.8 ."
Frequent Contributor
Posts: 39
Registered: ‎02-13-2013

Re: Accidental Lens Release


RobertTheFat wrote: 
I don't disagree with any of what you say. And since I rarely change lenses during a shoot, I don't share Ernie's resistance to a change in the release mechanism. But what does bother me is that we still don't really know what's happening, e.g. whether it's a hardware problem, user error, or both. And until the cause of the problem has been clearly identified, the risk is that an attempted fix may not solve the problem. Or that it will solve the problem, but at a cost that riles users like Ernie who need, or think they need, to change lenses quickly.

 

Yeah - agree.

 

In my case I think it was the combination of heavy glass, black rapid, the momentum of the camera/lens combo swinging about near my hip and the button somehow being bumped by my hip. Beats me how it managed to twist enough to not simply relock after it was depressed, but logic would tell me that it must have, somehow.

 

So, in my case, it's easy to say I was doing something wrong with the way I was carrying the camera. And, given the body left the lens and bounced down the road ahead of me, that would seem very fair.

 

But, regardless, it should not happen. A lens should only come off the camera due to a DELIBERATE and PURPOSEFUL action of the user assuming it was mounted correctly to begin with. It should not be possible to accidentlly bump the camera and release the lens. And the 5D3 is the first and only camera I have ever owned where that has occurred (though I suspect the more recent 5D's would be the same).

 

In any case, Canon do not have a great track record for listening to stuff like this. If they do take it on board, it will be years before we see it. But I would like to think that they might do so before the 5D5, because that's probably my next 5D and I'd like to think that I might be able to return to the good old days when, once I mounted a lens, it would stay there until I remove it. ;-)

 

Frequent Contributor
Posts: 39
Registered: ‎02-13-2013

Re: Accidental Lens Release

[ Edited ]

Waddizzle wrote:

Wrong.  This has nothing to do with the design of newer cameras.  The location and design of the release button has remained pretty much unchanged for years.  Yes, it can happen.  But, it happens through pure carelessness, IMHO.


Well, this is where we differ. But "carelessness" is a term that is open to interpretation.

 

Do you think it's careless to carry a camera and lens combination dangling at the end of a black rapid strap and walk about? If so, then I was being careless.

 

Regardless, it's a reasonable use case for many photgraphers and I maintain that a lens and camera should NOT seperate from each other accidentially under these conditions.

Esteemed Contributor
Posts: 4,165
Registered: ‎08-13-2015

Re: Accidental Lens Release


schmegg wrote:

Waddizzle wrote:

Wrong.  This has nothing to do with the design of newer cameras.  The location and design of the release button has remained pretty much unchanged for years.  Yes, it can happen.  But, it happens through pure carelessness, IMHO.


Well, this is where we differ. But "carelessness" is a term that is open to interpretation.

 

Do you think it's careless to carry a camera and lens combination dangling at the end of a black rapid strap and walk about? If so, then I was being careless.

 

Regardless, it's a reasonable use case for many photgraphers and I maintain that a lens and camera should NOT seperate from each other accidentially under these conditions.


Sorry, to hear that it dropped off like that, but you were careless.  You should have checked it before you began walking about.  Do you ever check the tripod mount screw for your Black Rapid?  They can loosen up, too, if it doesn't hang cleanly.

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"I don't rent software. I use Photoshop CS6, ACR 9.8 and Lightroom 6.8 ."
Frequent Contributor
Posts: 39
Registered: ‎02-13-2013

Re: Accidental Lens Release


Waddizzle wrote:

schmegg wrote:

Waddizzle wrote:

Wrong.  This has nothing to do with the design of newer cameras.  The location and design of the release button has remained pretty much unchanged for years.  Yes, it can happen.  But, it happens through pure carelessness, IMHO.


Well, this is where we differ. But "carelessness" is a term that is open to interpretation.

 

Do you think it's careless to carry a camera and lens combination dangling at the end of a black rapid strap and walk about? If so, then I was being careless.

 

Regardless, it's a reasonable use case for many photgraphers and I maintain that a lens and camera should NOT seperate from each other accidentially under these conditions.


Sorry, to hear that it dropped off like that, but you were careless.  You should have checked it before you began walking about.  Do you ever check the tripod mount screw for your Black Rapid?  They can loosen up, too, if it doesn't hang cleanly.


OK.

 

Thanks.

 

Yes - I checked the lens was mounted correctly and had been using it for about three hours prior to the incident. And yes, I check the Black Rapid screw all the time because I know it comes loose. And, knowing it comes loose makes me check it continually - and because of that I've never lost anything from the Black Rapid.

 

If I had had the same lack of faith in the Canon lens mount, then I would have checked the lens mount continually too and this would probably not have happened, but, unfortunately I was lulled into a false sense of security by the thirty odd years of experince I had with other Canon lens/body combinations and erroneously had faith that the lens would stay attached.

 

Carless newbie. That's me to a tee.

Esteemed Contributor
Posts: 4,165
Registered: ‎08-13-2015

Re: Accidental Lens Release

Sorry, to hear that it dropped off like that, but you were careless.  You should have checked it before you began walking about.  Do you ever check the tripod mount screw for your Black Rapid?  They can loosen up, too, if it doesn't hang cleanly.


OK.

 

Thanks.

==============================================

Again, sorry to hear about your accidents.

 

I use a Black Rapid Sport Strap, instead of the standard issue, Canon neck strap.  [They're selling for half price today, BTW]  But, I don't walk around with the camera hanging from my neck.  I use a holster, if I have to walk for any distance too far to hand hold the lens.

 

Personally, having a few pounds of camera bouncing off of my hip is very uncomfortable.  I don't use "big whites" lenses.  I've seen guys walking around with big whites banging off their hips, one on either side, and I marvel at them in wonder.  Self flagellation, if you ask me.  A holster is much more comfortable banging on my hip, than a naked camera. 

 

I don't use a "big white" lens, but I do use the 70-200mm and the 100-400mm lenses.  The lenses can fit into a Lowepro Toploader Pro 75 AW II still mounted to a 1D series body, or a body with a battery grip, with no problem.  It's far more comfortable, and a lot safer.  I know that I can easily get into the flow, become a little careless, and not be as attentive as I should with some details, when getting the shot is all that matters at the moment. 

 

I know that I can unknowingly hit the lens release button.  I know that I can forget to periodically check and secure the lens mount.  I know that getting into a flow, can be my worst enemy and my best ally.  I know all of this stuff, so I take precautions.

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"I don't rent software. I use Photoshop CS6, ACR 9.8 and Lightroom 6.8 ."
Frequent Contributor
Posts: 39
Registered: ‎02-13-2013

Re: Accidental Lens Release

[ Edited ]

Waddizzle wrote:

 

I know that I can unknowingly hit the lens release button.  I know that I can forget to periodically check and secure the lens mount.  I know that getting into a flow, can be my worst enemy and my best ally.  I know all of this stuff, so I take precautions.


See, by saying this you seem to be implying that I don't take precautions. That I don't periodically check mountings and fixtures etc.

 

You are wrong.

 

I do check such things. Regularly. I'm careful with my gear and my technique. And that's why this was such a surprise to me.

 

Clearly, you are not understanding that this has occurred despite all the normal, necessary care and attention being taken. The very same diligence that I have used throughout the years that has stood me in good stead and prevented such issues in the past.

 

But what I find most unfortunate is that you don't seem to think that Canon should revisit this and perhaps consider it in future designs. My feeling is that Canon have gone just a tiny bit too far with the ease with which a lens release can be acheived. And, whilst you are free to disagree, it seem strange to me that you seem to wish to deny those of us who have experienced this issue from making our point to Canon by calling us 'newbs' and 'careless'.

 

Good luck to you mate. I'm not a fanboy, so I call it the way I see it when it comes to design and functionality. And, by doing so, I hope that Canon will continue to improve their products going forward.

Frequent Contributor
Posts: 106
Registered: ‎09-29-2015

Re: Accidental Lens Release

One more time I wanna share my DIY experience which may be relevant to this problem.

 

I have once by accident caused damage to the lens contact assembly of an old camera body. (which may be a 30D or 5D)

 

I used cheap adapter to mount a Nikon Non Ai lens to the camera body. The AF confirmation chip fell off and bent one of the pins of the lens contact assembly.  I was able to get it fixed finally. (not go into details about this part)

 

When I opened up the camera body lens mount assembly - removed the outer chrome mount ring and some (may be 2) spacer rings inside, I discovered that the lens stopper pin was loaded with a very tiny and weak spring. The spring is not strong enough to support the pin to lock a lens mount in place firmly sometimes. The release button can easily be depressed with little force causing the lens to be dis-engaged by accident. I replaced it with a stronger spring. (I cut a portion of a spring from a ball pen spring and it worked) I found a big difference then. I have to apply a little more force to press on the lens release button to remove a lens and I found it working very well.

 

Some may argue that by doing so, the spacers may be changed in position and causing alignment problem. There are engagement holes inside and the spacers can only be installed in the original orientation. Of course, there may be other risk arising from DIY repair. You may drop the screws onto the sensor or break something inside etc, etc. So, I strongly oppose fixing the problem yourself unless you know what you are doing and only if you can bear the risk. If you have a very old camera which you are willing to experiment with it, you may do so, still at your own risk.

 

As most people suggested here in this forum, send the body to Canon repair facility to get it fix if you have the problem.

 

My post is just suggesting a possible cause and solution. May be Canon should consider using a stronger spring which I believe will help to reduce chances of accidental lens release.

 

 

 

 

Esteemed Contributor
Posts: 4,165
Registered: ‎08-13-2015

Re: Accidental Lens Release

[ Edited ]

"Clearly, you are not understanding that this has occurred despite all the normal, necessary care and attention being taken. The very same diligence that I have used throughout the years that has stood me in good stead and prevented such issues in the past.

 

But what I find most unfortunate is that you don't seem to think that Canon should revisit this and perhaps consider it in future designs. My feeling is that Canon have gone just a tiny bit too far with the ease with which a lens release can be acheived. And, whilst you are free to disagree, it seem strange to me that you seem to wish to deny those of us who have experienced this issue from making our point to Canon by calling us 'newbs' and 'careless'"

 

I called myself a newbie.  I had thought I had made it clear that I experienced the problem before I was completely familiar with the new camera.  I learned early on that it is very easy to accidentally touch and depress the lens release button.  My 35mm film camera had a spring loaded slide switch, so grazing it was not much of an issue.  But, it was prone to having lenses getting slightly stuck because it was so stiff.

 

The design of the EOS lens release doesn't seem to have changed in years and years.  The same mechanism seems to be used across the entire DSLR lineup.  I find it curious that you keep confirming the fact that the user unknowingly presses the release button, by arguing that action of the button is not stiff enough, or otherwise too easy to activate.

 

Perhaps a stronger spring is in order.  But, a stronger spring does nothing to correct the problem of accidentally depressing the switch.  A stronger spring would address the symptom, not the cause, and wouldn't be a cure. 

 

You're right.  I clearly do not understand how a lens can self detach itself from a mount that is in proper working order.  However, I do understand that even a minor lack of attentiveness is all it takes to initiate the accidental lens release.  Black Rapid seems to understand it, too.  They make and sell safety harness for the Sport Strap, which address this very issue. 

 

Isn't it curious how this spontaneous lens release only seems to occur simultaneously with some form of human interaction with the camera?  No, actually it isn't curious.  As you have pointed out, the button is far too easy to depress.  For some folks, I suppose that is true. 

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"I don't rent software. I use Photoshop CS6, ACR 9.8 and Lightroom 6.8 ."
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