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Honored Contributor
Posts: 5,462
Registered: ‎08-13-2015

Re: New Cameras: M6, T7i, 77D


pcdarcan wrote:

Okay, you can get off your high horse now buddy.  I can see you have missed MANY a shot at events and just don't care.  That's not me!  I want every shot that "I see as desirable".  The Canon EOS 77D appealed to me BECAUSE of it's lighter weight.  That's an easy decision.  In case you are living under a rock or something, do you know how many people shoot EVENTs with prosumer cameras?  Plenty. So, that case is closed.  I certainly understand FULLY that no camera will ever be perfect, but battery life is ALWAYS a key point for EVENT shooters because they will all tell you that uncomfortable situation when they had to change a battery while the subjects waited UNCOMFORTABLY while you do this.  It can change the dynamic And, while it's true you can try to anticipate these changes, it sure is nice when you don't have to WORRY about it, while you concentrate on all the great shots you want to take.  I don't think asking for a more powerful battery in this camera is asking too much.  May I ask, do you work for Canon or do you have stock in their company?  Geez, you really do miss the point here.  I just told you that my G10 gets more shots than the 77D that I returned (both using the same external flash) AND you actually are coming to the defense of Canon on that point?  Are you real?


The EOS 77D is NOT a prosumer camera.  Period.  The undersized battery is one reason why I say that.  But, other manufacturers suffer from comparable battery issues with most mirrorless cameras.  

 

You are comparing apples to oranges, IMHO.  Mirrorless vs DSLR.  

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"I don't rent software. I use Photoshop CS6, ACR 9.8 and Lightroom 6.8 ."
Esteemed Contributor
Posts: 3,736
Registered: ‎06-25-2014

Re: New Cameras: M6, T7i, 77D


pcdarcan wrote:

Okay, you can get off your high horse now buddy.  I can see you have missed MANY a shot at events and just don't care.  That's not me!  I want every shot that "I see as desirable".  The Canon EOS 77D appealed to me BECAUSE of it's lighter weight.  That's an easy decision.  In case you are living under a rock or something, do you know how many people shoot EVENTs with prosumer cameras?  Plenty. So, that case is closed.  I certainly understand FULLY that no camera will ever be perfect, but battery life is ALWAYS a key point for EVENT shooters because they will all tell you that uncomfortable situation when they had to change a battery while the subjects waited UNCOMFORTABLY while you do this.  It can change the dynamic And, while it's true you can try to anticipate these changes, it sure is nice when you don't have to WORRY about it, while you concentrate on all the great shots you want to take.  I don't think asking for a more powerful battery in this camera is asking too much.  May I ask, do you work for Canon or do you have stock in their company?  Geez, you really do miss the point here.  I just told you that my G10 gets more shots than the 77D that I returned (both using the same external flash) AND you actually are coming to the defense of Canon on that point?  Are you real?


I assume that was aimed at me. Actually, when I've done event photography, it's generally been of the sort where missing a shot isn't an option. That's one of several reasons why I use only professional equipment.

 

I have no experience with the 77D (I've never even seen one), so I can't offer you any useful advice there. But as I said before, if you were a serious event photographer, you wouldn't have even tried it. And if you're just doing it for your own enjoyment, swapping the batteries would be a nuisance, not a handicap. But your G10 is OK. You may outgrow it eventually, but it should continue to serve you well for the time being.

 

No, I don't work for Canon, nor do I own any Canon stock. I'm a CPS Gold Member; but other than that, I'm just another Canon owner.

 

I don't believe you got around to telling me what point I "really do miss". So I'll return the favor by not bothering to ask.

Bob
Boston, Massachusetts USA
Honored Contributor
Posts: 5,462
Registered: ‎08-13-2015

Re: New Cameras: M6, T7i, 77D

[ Edited ]

Sony’s latest 43MP mirrorless offering has a new battery for Sony cameras.  You can now get 500 shots on a single charge, which is a significant improvement.  The 77D is rated for 800 shots.  Cut those numbers in half when using professional lenses.

 

Keep in mind that those numbers reflect running the battery down to zero.  In practice, you will get significantly fewer shots.

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"I don't rent software. I use Photoshop CS6, ACR 9.8 and Lightroom 6.8 ."
VIP
Posts: 8,139
Registered: ‎12-07-2012

Re: New Cameras: M6, T7i, 77D

"...key point for EVENT shooters because they will all tell you that uncomfortable situation when they had to change a battery while the subjects waited UNCOMFORTABLY while you do this."

 

This is a planning issue not an equipment failure.  I have probably shot more 'events' than most of the current crop of responders (combined, I might add) here and I can tell you I have never heard that before.

 

Beside that if the 77D is your preferred choice for gear than you need to do whatever you need to do, to make it work.  Like Robert above it isn't a model I would choose.  It is a Prosummer level camera and is capable.  But that is where it ends.

 

In the past I always carried a G15 or G16. Currently I carry a G1x along with my 1 series cameras. I typically take four extra 1 series batteries and two for the G1x.  All fully charged !  If an important part of the event is about to happen a quick look at the battery level tells me to proceed or switch batteries.  It may take 5 seconds.

 

In 40 years of commercial shooting I never had a dead battery.  That my friend is a user error not an equipment failure.

A lot of Canon stuff. Along with, a lot of other stuff.
VIP
Posts: 8,139
Registered: ‎12-07-2012

Re: New Cameras: M6, T7i, 77D

"...do you work for Canon or do you have stock in their company?"

 

In case that was aimed at me, the company I worked for (40 years) was 100% brand-N.  I choose Canon for my personal gear. And, no, no stock in either company.

A lot of Canon stuff. Along with, a lot of other stuff.
Honored Contributor
Posts: 5,462
Registered: ‎08-13-2015

Re: New Cameras: M6, T7i, 77D


ebiggs1 wrote:

 

 

 It is a Prosummer level camera and is capable.  But that is where it ends.

 .


 

There is no available battery grip.  That does not meet my definition of “prosumer” camera.  It is a Rebel, IMHO.

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"I don't rent software. I use Photoshop CS6, ACR 9.8 and Lightroom 6.8 ."
Super Contributor
Posts: 193
Registered: ‎01-31-2017

Re: New Cameras: M6, T7i, 77D


pcdarcan wrote:

"Okay, you can get off your high horse now buddy.  I can see you have missed MANY a shot at events and just don't care."

 

Like you would know. Are you a longtime associate of Bob's? A competitor? You seem to have a close relationship with him, so tell us about the events the two of you have been to together and the "shots he missed." 

 

"The Canon EOS 77D appealed to me BECAUSE of it's lighter weight.  That's an easy decision."

 

The 77D isn't regarded as a real pro camera. You should get a 5D or above. If the heft is too much for you, could you get an aunty or your grandmother to help you lift it?

 

" In case you are living under a rock or something, do you know how many people shoot EVENTs with prosumer cameras? 

 

Amateurs and enthusiasts. Real pros would be shooting with pro rigs. And they would be able to lift them all by themselves. 

 

Super Contributor
Posts: 193
Registered: ‎01-31-2017

Re: New Cameras: M6, T7i, 77D


ebiggs1 wrote:

"...key point for EVENT shooters because they will all tell you that uncomfortable situation when they had to change a battery while the subjects waited UNCOMFORTABLY while you do this."

 

This is a planning issue not an equipment failure.  I have probably shot more 'events' than most of the current crop of responders (combined, I might add) here and I can tell you I have never heard that before.

 

Beside that if the 77D is your preferred choice for gear than you need to do whatever you need to do, to make it work.  Like Robert above it isn't a model I would choose.  It is a Prosummer level camera and is capable.  But that is where it ends.

 

In the past I always carried a G15 or G16. Currently I carry a G1x along with my 1 series cameras. I typically take four extra 1 series batteries and two for the G1x.  All fully charged !  If an important part of the event is about to happen a quick look at the battery level tells me to proceed or switch batteries.  It may take 5 seconds.

 

In 40 years of commercial shooting I never had a dead battery.  That my friend is a user error not an equipment failure.


Photography isn't for them. Have you notcied that all of these kids seem to fall apart as soon as they have an issue with the camera? It's a conspiracy, they say, as Canon wants them to buy a more expensive camera. The batteries are poorly engineered, forcing you to buy extras LOL, motherboards are set to fail as soon as they get a little warm, etc., etc. Then they tell us that they are "pros" and will not be abused by Canon anymore. The bunch of them are clowns. 

 

Occasional Contributor
Posts: 9
Registered: ‎10-26-2017

Re: New Cameras: M6, T7i, 77D

[ Edited ]

Went to a relative's wedding in NY in early September.  The so-called pro, using his trust-worthy 5D Mark III and expensive Canon F4.0 standard zoom lens shot the bride coming down the isle.  I shot from my end-seat, using a G10, powered by an external flash (430EXII), ISO 200.  The average person could not see a difference in the quality of the comparison shots and although I'm not suggesting that a pro use a G10 to shoot a wedding that he's getting paid for, I also know it can be a small annoyance to pro photographer's when people (esp. their clients) cannot quickly see the difference in the image quality of cameras that are separated by thousands of dollars!  It's laughable to argue that a pro MUST use a certain line of equipment.  Absolutely laughable [in today's world], but I'm sure there's a measure of "pride" or perhaps "justification" needed when you drop THOUSANDS upon THOUSANDS of dollars on photo equipment.  It's just not necessary today folks.  Don't buy their rethoric or demeaning comments.  There are plenty of "non" full-frame cameras that can handle event shooting - and the bonus is, less weight.  So, although it may not bother some to lug around all those heavy cameras and glass, it sure is refreshing when you find alternatives that do a job that is more than acceptable... very refreshing.  I get my exercise outside of lugging photo gear, so I'm all for keeping in shape.  At 64, I can out-do most 40 year-olds on so many levels.  But, now I'm bragging.  SMILE

Esteemed Contributor
Posts: 3,736
Registered: ‎06-25-2014

Re: New Cameras: M6, T7i, 77D


pcdarcan wrote:

Went to a relative's wedding in NY in early September.  The so-called pro, using his trust-worthy 5D Mark III and expensive Canon F4.0 standard zoom lens shot the bride coming down the isle.  I shot from my end-seat, using a G10, powered by an external flash (430EXII), ISO 200.  The average person could not see a difference in the quality of the comparison shots and although I'm not suggesting that a pro use a G10 to shoot a wedding that he's getting paid for, I also know it can be a small annoyance to pro photographer's when people (esp. their clients) cannot quickly see the difference in the image quality of cameras that are separated by thousands of dollars!  It's laughable to argue that a pro MUST use a certain line of equipment.  Absolutely laughable [in today's world], but I'm sure there's a measure of "pride" or perhaps "justification" needed when you drop THOUSANDS upon THOUSANDS of dollars on photo equipment.  It's just not necessary today folks.  Don't buy their rethoric or demeaning comments.  There are plenty of "non" full-frame cameras that can handle event shooting - and the bonus is, less weight.  So, although it may not bother some to lug around all those heavy cameras and glass, it sure is refreshing when you find alternatives that do a job that is more than acceptable... very refreshing.  I get my exercise outside of lugging photo gear, so I'm all for keeping in shape.  At 64, I can out-do most 40 year-olds on so many levels.  But, now I'm bragging.  SMILE


Better equipment will make any good photographer better. How much better depends on how good you already are. The better you already are, the more difference better equipment makes. If you've reached the point at which better equipment doesn't make you better, or at which getting better is no longer your objective, you're lucky in a way, because it means that you can stop spending money.

 

You didn't ask for advice, but I'll offer some anyway; take it or leave it. The next time you attend a wedding, instead of ridiculing the wedding photographer, follow him/her around (staying out of the way, of course) and see what you can learn. The results may surprise you.

 

As for bragging, it's good to hear that you can put those upstart 40-year-olds in their place. I wonder how you stack up against those of us who are older (in some cases a lot older) than you are.

Bob
Boston, Massachusetts USA
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